The worldmail list archive ending on 14 Jun 2001


Topics covered in this issue include:

  1. Re: Worldmail Password Format
       Randall Gellens <rg_public.1 at flagg.qualcomm dot com>
       Fri, 4 May 2001 17:23:48 -0700
  2. Re: Worldmail Password Format
       Andrew Cyr <acyr at admin.seu dot edu>
       Fri, 04 May 2001 21:16:53 -0500
  3. RE: Worldmail Password Format
       "Paul Webster" <paul at spidersweb.freeserve.co dot uk>
       Sat, 5 May 2001 11:50:37 +0100
  4. Re: Worldmail Password Format
       Randall Gellens <rg_public.1 at flagg.qualcomm dot com>
       Sat, 5 May 2001 21:52:44 -0700
  5. Passwords
       ebujan at rentokil-tps dot com
       Tue, 15 May 2001 09:53:09 -0500
  6. Active connections / Message Queue
       ebujan at rentokil-tps dot com
       Tue, 15 May 2001 09:47:27 -0500
  7. Passwords
       "Brian Augustine" <brian at meetingsplus dot com>
       Tue, 15 May 2001 09:24:49 -0700
  8. Re: Passwords
       ebujan at rentokil-tps dot com
       Tue, 15 May 2001 11:23:55 -0500
  9. RE: Passwords
       "Brian Augustine" <brian at meetingsplus dot com>
       Tue, 15 May 2001 09:36:30 -0700
 10. RE: Active connections / Message Queue
       "Paul Webster" <paul at spidersweb.freeserve.co dot uk>
       Tue, 15 May 2001 18:53:15 +0100
 11. Export tools
       ebujan at rentokil-tps dot com
       Mon, 21 May 2001 13:25:36 -0500
 12. aliases
       "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
       Mon, 21 May 2001 14:49:15 -0400
 13. RE: aliases
       "Tom Kemp" <KempT at presearch dot com>
       Wed, 23 May 2001 10:50:29 -0400
 14. RE: aliases
       "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
       Wed, 23 May 2001 11:04:28 -0400
 15. RE: aliases
       Dave Salovesh <salovesh at ramassociates dot com>
       Wed, 23 May 2001 11:18:51 -0400
 16. RE: aliases
       "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
       Wed, 23 May 2001 11:30:34 -0400
 17. RE: aliases
       "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
       Wed, 23 May 2001 12:13:32 -0400
 18. RE: aliases
       "Chris Lander" <chris at altuscorp dot com>
       Wed, 23 May 2001 09:10:07 -0700
 19. RE: aliases
       "Jefferson Scher" <jscher at carr-ferrell dot com>
       Wed, 23 May 2001 09:09:20 -0700
 20. RE: aliases
       "Brian Augustine" <brian at meetingsplus dot com>
       Wed, 23 May 2001 09:34:16 -0700
 21. RE: aliases
       Ian Homewood <ianh at stanley.co dot uk>
       Wed, 23 May 2001 17:35:41 +0100
 22. RE: aliases
       "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
       Wed, 23 May 2001 13:03:13 -0400
 23. RE: aliases
       Dave Salovesh <salovesh at ramassociates dot com>
       Wed, 23 May 2001 14:10:52 -0400
 24. RE: aliases
       "Tom Kemp" <KempT at presearch dot com>
       Wed, 23 May 2001 15:23:27 -0400
 25. RE: aliases
       "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
       Wed, 23 May 2001 16:55:07 -0400
 26. RE: aliases
       Dave Salovesh <salovesh at ramassociates dot com>
       Thu, 24 May 2001 09:07:25 -0400
 27. Re: aliases
       Jeffrey Posluns <scripter at secureops dot com>
       Thu, 24 May 2001 09:39:55 -0400
 28. RE: aliases
       "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
       Thu, 24 May 2001 10:05:55 -0400
 29. RE: aliases
       "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
       Thu, 24 May 2001 10:05:58 -0400
 30. Re: aliases
       Jeffrey Posluns <scripter at secureops dot com>
       Thu, 24 May 2001 10:38:16 -0400
 31. RE: aliases
       "Chris Lander" <chris at altuscorp dot com>
       Thu, 24 May 2001 09:10:56 -0700
 32. RE: aliases
       "Brian Augustine" <brian at meetingsplus dot com>
       Thu, 24 May 2001 09:16:13 -0700
 33. RE: aliases
       "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
       Thu, 24 May 2001 12:30:09 -0400
 34. RE: aliases
       Dave Salovesh <salovesh at ramassociates dot com>
       Thu, 24 May 2001 12:49:48 -0400
 35. RE: aliases
       "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
       Thu, 24 May 2001 13:03:43 -0400
 36. RE: aliases
       "Paul Webster" <paul at spidersweb.freeserve.co dot uk>
       Fri, 25 May 2001 09:41:19 +0100
 37. Re: aliases
       "Peter Martin" <p.martin at ies.uk dot com>
       Fri, 25 May 2001 15:52:45 +0100
 38. RE: aliases
       "Paul Webster" <paul at spidersweb.freeserve.co dot uk>
       Fri, 25 May 2001 19:55:28 +0100
 39. RE: aliases
       "Paul Webster" <paul at spidersweb.freeserve.co dot uk>
       Fri, 1 Jun 2001 19:50:47 +0100
 40. Windows 2000 Support
       "Chris Lander" <chris at altuscorp dot com>
       Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:32:26 -0700
 41. RE: Windows 2000 Support
       "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
       Fri, 8 Jun 2001 12:42:21 -0400
 42. RE: Windows 2000 Support
       "Chris Lander" <chris at altuscorp dot com>
       Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:00:39 -0700
 43. RE: Windows 2000 Support
       "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
       Fri, 8 Jun 2001 13:10:44 -0400
 44. Relay Problem
       "John Kirchner" <jkirch at jumpsource dot com>
       Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:54:43 -0400
 45. RE: Relay Problem
       "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
       Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:04:29 -0400
 46. Re: Relay Problem
       Johan Malmberg <johan.malmberg at nextlevel dot se>
       Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:04:10 +0200
 47. RE: Relay Problem
       "John Kirchner" <jkirch at jumpsource dot com>
       Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:05:43 -0400
 48. RE: Relay Problem
       "John Kirchner" <jkirch at jumpsource dot com>
       Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:09:08 -0400
 49. Services Stopping
       "Michael Smallwood" <msmallwood at mindseye dot com>
       Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:20:06 -0400
 50. Re: Relay Problem
       Johan Malmberg <johan.malmberg at nextlevel dot se>
       Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:19:53 +0200

Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 17:23:48 -0700
From: Randall Gellens <rg_public.1 at flagg.qualcomm dot com>
Subject: Re: Worldmail Password Format

At 12:43 PM -0400 4/26/01, Andrew Cyr wrote:

>  I am trying to import some of my Worldmail user data into a Netscape LDAP
>  database. nible.exe exports a "password" field and a "secret" field. The
>  password field looks like crypt, but I am having problems using it as such.
>
>  Does anyone out there know anything about the format of either of these
>  fields, or, alternatively, whether there is a way to export the password
>  field in clear text using nibl.exe?

These fields are encrypted (one is the password for user/pass, the 
other is for AOP/CRAM-MD5) and there is no way to get them exported 
in the clear.
-- 
Randall Gellens
rg_public.1 at flagg.qualcomm dot com
Opinions are personal;     facts are suspect;     I speak for myself only

Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 21:16:53 -0500
From: Andrew Cyr <acyr at admin.seu dot edu>
Subject: Re: Worldmail Password Format

I'm not trying to get them into the clear. My LDAP server may be able to import
them encrypted, depending on the type of encryption. I can't find documentation on
this.
Andrew Cyr

Randall Gellens wrote:

> At 12:43 PM -0400 4/26/01, Andrew Cyr wrote:
>
> >  I am trying to import some of my Worldmail user data into a Netscape LDAP
> >  database. nible.exe exports a "password" field and a "secret" field. The
> >  password field looks like crypt, but I am having problems using it as such.
> >
> >  Does anyone out there know anything about the format of either of these
> >  fields, or, alternatively, whether there is a way to export the password
> >  field in clear text using nibl.exe?
>
> These fields are encrypted (one is the password for user/pass, the
> other is for AOP/CRAM-MD5) and there is no way to get them exported
> in the clear.
> --
> Randall Gellens
> rg_public.1 at flagg.qualcomm dot com
> Opinions are personal;     facts are suspect;     I speak for myself only


From: "Paul Webster" <paul at spidersweb.freeserve.co dot uk>
Subject: RE: Worldmail Password Format
Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 11:50:37 +0100

Sorry Andrew - will not be possible like that.
They are encrypted using a private key - and will not be decodable by your
LDAP server.

Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Cyr [mailto:acyr at admin.seu dot edu]
Sent: 05 May 2001 03:17
To: Randall Gellens
Cc: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: Re: Worldmail Password Format


I'm not trying to get them into the clear. My LDAP server may be able to
import
them encrypted, depending on the type of encryption. I can't find
documentation on
this.
Andrew Cyr

Randall Gellens wrote:

> At 12:43 PM -0400 4/26/01, Andrew Cyr wrote:
>
> >  I am trying to import some of my Worldmail user data into a Netscape
LDAP
> >  database. nible.exe exports a "password" field and a "secret" field.
The
> >  password field looks like crypt, but I am having problems using it as
such.
> >
> >  Does anyone out there know anything about the format of either of these
> >  fields, or, alternatively, whether there is a way to export the
password
> >  field in clear text using nibl.exe?
>
> These fields are encrypted (one is the password for user/pass, the
> other is for AOP/CRAM-MD5) and there is no way to get them exported
> in the clear.
> --
> Randall Gellens
> rg_public.1 at flagg.qualcomm dot com
> Opinions are personal;     facts are suspect;     I speak for myself only



Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 21:52:44 -0700
From: Randall Gellens <rg_public.1 at flagg.qualcomm dot com>
Subject: Re: Worldmail Password Format

At 9:16 PM -0500 5/4/01, Andrew Cyr wrote:

>  I'm not trying to get them into the clear. My LDAP server may be 
> able to import
>  them encrypted, depending on the type of encryption. I can't find 
> documentation on
>  this.

It's not a form that usable by anything else.
-- 
Randall Gellens
rg_public.1 at flagg.qualcomm dot com
Opinions are personal;     facts are suspect;     I speak for myself only

From: ebujan at rentokil-tps dot com
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 09:53:09 -0500
Subject: Passwords

Is there a bug related with the passwords?
Our users run OE 5.x and they usually have the option "save 
passord" checked.

Every once in a while, I have to reset their passwords because 
Worlmail is not accepting the one saved on their machines.  After 
resetting it, everything works fine.

I don't think is an OE issue because even if they don't retype it, it 
works after I re-set it.






Elliott Bujan
MIS Dept. - Rentokil, TPS
847.634.4250  .x281  - www.rentokil-tps.com

From: ebujan at rentokil-tps dot com
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 09:47:27 -0500
Subject: Active connections / Message Queue

From time to time our queue shows messages hanging around for 
hours (2, 10, 30hrs) to be sent in the queue, any reason?

This doesn't happen everyday although we had a period where 
there were, maybe 10 or 20 of them.  It wasn't a DNS issue 
because not all of the messages stayed there and I was able to 
resolve MX entries from the server.

Elliott






Elliott Bujan
MIS Dept. - Rentokil, TPS
847.634.4250  .x281  - www.rentokil-tps.com

From: "Brian Augustine" <brian at meetingsplus dot com>
Subject: Passwords
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 09:24:49 -0700

This happens to me, as well.  I use Outlook 2000.  Occasionally, the World
mail Server will tell me my password is wrong.  If I wait a few minutes, it
will then accept it.

I have had this problem on every pop3 server I have used in the past 2
years.. Outlook or Outlook Express.

Hope that helps,

-Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: ebujan at rentokil-tps dot com [mailto:ebujan at rentokil-tps dot com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 7:53 AM
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: Passwords


Is there a bug related with the passwords?
Our users run OE 5.x and they usually have the option "save
passord" checked.

Every once in a while, I have to reset their passwords because
Worlmail is not accepting the one saved on their machines.  After
resetting it, everything works fine.

I don't think is an OE issue because even if they don't retype it, it
works after I re-set it.






Elliott Bujan
MIS Dept. - Rentokil, TPS
847.634.4250  .x281  - www.rentokil-tps.com


From: ebujan at rentokil-tps dot com
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 11:23:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Passwords

have you checked their knowledge pages?

On 15 May 2001, at 9:24, Brian Augustine wrote:

This happens to me, as well.  I use Outlook 2000.  Occasionally, the World
mail Server will tell me my password is wrong.  If I wait a few minutes, it
will then accept it.

I have had this problem on every pop3 server I have used in the past 2
years.. Outlook or Outlook Express.

Hope that helps,

-Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: ebujan at rentokil-tps dot com [mailto:ebujan at rentokil-tps dot com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 7:53 AM
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: Passwords


Is there a bug related with the passwords?
Our users run OE 5.x and they usually have the option "save
passord" checked.

Every once in a while, I have to reset their passwords because
Worlmail is not accepting the one saved on their machines.  After
resetting it, everything works fine.

I don't think is an OE issue because even if they don't retype it, it
works after I re-set it.






Elliott Bujan
MIS Dept. - Rentokil, TPS
847.634.4250  .x281  - www.rentokil-tps.com





Elliott Bujan
MIS Dept. - Rentokil, TPS
847.634.4250  .x281  - www.rentokil-tps.com

From: "Brian Augustine" <brian at meetingsplus dot com>
Subject: RE: Passwords
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 09:36:30 -0700

No, never bothered.  It wasn't a big deal to just hit cancel and wait 5
minutes for it to auto-check again.

-Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: ebujan at rentokil-tps dot com [mailto:ebujan at rentokil-tps dot com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 9:24 AM
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: Re: Passwords


have you checked their knowledge pages?

On 15 May 2001, at 9:24, Brian Augustine wrote:

This happens to me, as well.  I use Outlook 2000.  Occasionally, the World
mail Server will tell me my password is wrong.  If I wait a few minutes, it
will then accept it.

I have had this problem on every pop3 server I have used in the past 2
years.. Outlook or Outlook Express.

Hope that helps,

-Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: ebujan at rentokil-tps dot com [mailto:ebujan at rentokil-tps dot com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 7:53 AM
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: Passwords


Is there a bug related with the passwords?
Our users run OE 5.x and they usually have the option "save
passord" checked.

Every once in a while, I have to reset their passwords because
Worlmail is not accepting the one saved on their machines.  After
resetting it, everything works fine.

I don't think is an OE issue because even if they don't retype it, it
works after I re-set it.






Elliott Bujan
MIS Dept. - Rentokil, TPS
847.634.4250  .x281  - www.rentokil-tps.com





Elliott Bujan
MIS Dept. - Rentokil, TPS
847.634.4250  .x281  - www.rentokil-tps.com


From: "Paul Webster" <paul at spidersweb.freeserve.co dot uk>
Subject: RE: Active connections / Message Queue
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 18:53:15 +0100

Really need to see what was happening from the logs - and potentially from
ISOTRACE.
The software does put things on retry - so a queue "now" is probably the
result of failures a while ago.

Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: ebujan at rentokil-tps dot com [mailto:ebujan at rentokil-tps dot com]
Sent: 15 May 2001 15:47
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: Active connections / Message Queue


From time to time our queue shows messages hanging around for
hours (2, 10, 30hrs) to be sent in the queue, any reason?

This doesn't happen everyday although we had a period where
there were, maybe 10 or 20 of them.  It wasn't a DNS issue
because not all of the messages stayed there and I was able to
resolve MX entries from the server.

Elliott






Elliott Bujan
MIS Dept. - Rentokil, TPS
847.634.4250  .x281  - www.rentokil-tps.com


From: ebujan at rentokil-tps dot com
Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 13:25:36 -0500
Subject: Export tools

In the midst of switching from Worldmail to xx, does any of you 
know any export tools and to which servers (Exchange, IMail, 
sendmail, etc)?

Any experiences with this issue?

Elliott




Elliott Bujan
MIS Dept. - Rentokil, TPS
847.634.4250  .x281  - www.rentokil-tps.com

From: "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
Subject: aliases
Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 14:49:15 -0400

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Hi all, this is my first time using this system, I hope to get some good
feedback!

I would like to use mail aliasing in Worldmail.

By that I mean, if I have an account within a domain named BILL at whatever dot com
how can i get any email address NOT recognized as an account pushed to
BILL at whatever dot com?

So, if someone emails hillaryClinton at whatever dot com, or sales at whatever dot com how
can i get those emails to go to BILL? Those mailboxes above dont exist, but
they should still go to somebody! right?

Right now, i have it set for "all non deliverable mail should forward to
so-n-so." But that is only delivering the undeliverable mail message.
(e.g. - "the following message was undeliverable")

and ideas?

Thanks!
  ........................................
  Ben Saren
  ben at atomicusa dot com


------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C0E205.351534F0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; 
charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4613.1700" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>Hi 
all, this is my 
first time using this system, I hope to get some good 
feedback!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>I 
would like to use 
mail aliasing in Worldmail.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>By 
that I mean, if 
I have an account within a domain named </FONT><A 
href="mailto:BILL@whatever dot com"><FONT face=Tahoma color=#000000 
size=2>BILL at whatever dot com</FONT></A><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
size=2>how can i get any email address NOT recognized as an account 
pushed to <A 
href="mailto:BILL at whatever dot com">BILL@whatever dot com</A>?</FONT></SPAN></D
IV>
<DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>So, 
if someone 
emails <A 
href="mailto:hillaryClinton at whatever dot com">hillaryClinton@whatever dot com</
A>, or <A 
href="mailto:sales at whatever dot com">sales@whatever dot com</A> how can i get 
those 
emails to go to BILL? Those mailboxes above dont exist, but they should 
still go 
to somebody! right?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>Right 
now, i have 
it set for "all non deliverable mail should forward to so-n-so." But 
that is 
only delivering the undeliverable mail message. (e.g. - "the following 
message 
was undeliverable")</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>and 
ideas?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2>Thanks!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DL>
  <DT><FONT color=#808080 
size=2>........................................</FONT> 
  </DT>
  <DT><FONT color=#808080 size=2><B>Ben Saren</B></FONT></DT>
  <DT><FONT color=#808080 size=2>ben at atomicusa dot com</FONT></DT></DL>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Tom Kemp" <KempT at presearch dot com>
Subject: RE: aliases
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 10:50:29 -0400

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That's a very simple question.  Obviously you haven't used Worldmail before!
If you right-click on the domain you want to add a user, alias, robot, etc.
to, you will get a menu with these options.  If you select Alias, it asks
you for the alias name, then the actual account you want it to go to.  That
won't reveal the destination account to people when they send you
email...only if your reply to it, and have your email reply address set to
the real address, and not an alias.

A word of caution:  Aliases don't work if you disable relay for your server.
It will continue to work for emails sent from permitted IP's, such as your
internal network, but not for others.  The best way to handle this is to
creat Groups instead of aliases.  You would simply make the members of the
groups the actual addresses.  I haven't tried it yet, but I'll bet that you
could put aliases into a distribution group and have the aliases set to
forward to an actual account, and have this work fine without relaying
enabled.  It might be worth a shot..

Dennis T. Kemp II (Tom Kemp)
MCSE/CCNAv2/Program Manager
Control Concepts, Inc.
703-876-6418
Fax:  703-876-6416
KempT at presearch dot com


  -----Original Message-----
  From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
  Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 2:49 PM
  To: Subscribers of WorldMail
  Subject: aliases


  Hi all, this is my first time using this system, I hope to get some good
feedback!

  I would like to use mail aliasing in Worldmail.

  By that I mean, if I have an account within a domain named
BILL at whatever dot com how can i get any email address NOT recognized as an
account pushed to BILL at whatever dot com?

  So, if someone emails hillaryClinton at whatever dot com, or sales at whatever dot com
how can i get those emails to go to BILL? Those mailboxes above dont exist,
but they should still go to somebody! right?

  Right now, i have it set for "all non deliverable mail should forward to
so-n-so." But that is only delivering the undeliverable mail message.
(e.g. - "the following message was undeliverable")

  and ideas?

  Thanks!
    ........................................
    Ben Saren
    ben at atomicusa dot com


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Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; 
charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4613.1700" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=173364414-23052001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>That's 
a very simple question.&nbsp; Obviously you haven't used Worldmail 
before!&nbsp; 
If you right-click on the domain you want to add a user, alias, robot, 
etc. to, 
you will get a menu with these options.&nbsp; If you select Alias, it 
asks you 
for the alias name, then the actual account you want it to go to.&nbsp; 
That 
won't reveal the destination account to people when they send you 
email...only 
if your reply to it, and have your email reply address set to the real 
address, 
and not&nbsp;an alias.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=173364414-23052001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 

size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=173364414-23052001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>A word 
of caution:&nbsp; Aliases don't work if you disable relay for your 
server.&nbsp; 
It will continue to work for emails sent from permitted IP's, such as 
your 
internal network, but not for others.&nbsp; The best way to handle this 
is to 
creat Groups instead of aliases.&nbsp; You would simply make the members 
of the 
groups the actual addresses.&nbsp; I haven't tried it yet, but I'll bet 
that you 
could put aliases into a distribution group and have the aliases set to 
forward 
to an actual account, and have this work fine without relaying 
enabled.&nbsp; It 
might be worth a shot..</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<P><FONT size=2>Dennis T. Kemp II (Tom Kemp)<BR>MCSE/CCNAv2/Program 
Manager<BR>Control Concepts, Inc.<BR>703-876-6418<BR>Fax:&nbsp; 
703-876-6416<BR>KempT at presearch dot com</FONT> </P>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
  [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 21, 2001 2:49 
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> Subscribers of WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> 
  aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>Hi 
all, this is 
  my first time using this system, I hope to get some good 
  feedback!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>I 
would like to 
  use mail aliasing in Worldmail.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>By 
that I mean, 
  if I have an account within a domain named </FONT><A 
  href="mailto:BILL@whatever dot com"><FONT face=Tahoma color=#000000 
  size=2>BILL at whatever dot com</FONT></A><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
  size=2>how can i get any email address NOT recognized as an account 
pushed to 
  <A 
href="mailto:BILL at whatever dot com">BILL@whatever dot com</A>?</FONT></SPAN></D
IV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>So, 
if someone 
  emails <A 
  
href="mailto:hillaryClinton at whatever dot com">hillaryClinton@whatever dot com</
A>, or 
  <A href="mailto:sales at whatever dot com">sales@whatever dot com</A> how can i 
get those 
  emails to go to BILL? Those mailboxes above dont exist, but they 
should still 
  go to somebody! right?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2>Right now, i have 
  it set for "all non deliverable mail should forward to so-n-so." But 
that is 
  only delivering the undeliverable mail message. (e.g. - "the following 
message 
  was undeliverable")</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>and 

  ideas?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>Thanks!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DL>
    <DT><FONT color=#808080 
    size=2>........................................</FONT> 
    <DT><FONT color=#808080 size=2><B>Ben Saren</B></FONT> 
    <DT><FONT color=#808080 
size=2>ben at atomicusa dot com</FONT></DT></DL>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C0E376.2F105720--


From: "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
Subject: RE: aliases
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:04:28 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Tom, I appreciate your email. However, there is in fact NO way to do what I
am requesting. According to Qualcomm, and many others... it wont work. I
know how to create an alias, thanks for your lesson.

I want a wildcard alias. So even if i dont have an alias for BILLCLINTON@
... mail will STILL go to a recipient. But, there is no way to do this. You
can with EIMS, but not with Worldmail. A real dissappointment.


  -----Original Message-----
  From: Tom Kemp [mailto:KempT at presearch dot com]
  Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 10:50 AM
  To: Ben Saren
  Cc: Subscribers of WorldMail
  Subject: RE: aliases


  That's a very simple question.  Obviously you haven't used Worldmail
before!  If you right-click on the domain you want to add a user, alias,
robot, etc. to, you will get a menu with these options.  If you select
Alias, it asks you for the alias name, then the actual account you want it
to go to.  That won't reveal the destination account to people when they
send you email...only if your reply to it, and have your email reply address
set to the real address, and not an alias.

  A word of caution:  Aliases don't work if you disable relay for your
server.  It will continue to work for emails sent from permitted IP's, such
as your internal network, but not for others.  The best way to handle this
is to creat Groups instead of aliases.  You would simply make the members of
the groups the actual addresses.  I haven't tried it yet, but I'll bet that
you could put aliases into a distribution group and have the aliases set to
forward to an actual account, and have this work fine without relaying
enabled.  It might be worth a shot..

  Dennis T. Kemp II (Tom Kemp)
  MCSE/CCNAv2/Program Manager
  Control Concepts, Inc.
  703-876-6418
  Fax:  703-876-6416
  KempT at presearch dot com


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
    Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 2:49 PM
    To: Subscribers of WorldMail
    Subject: aliases


    Hi all, this is my first time using this system, I hope to get some good
feedback!

    I would like to use mail aliasing in Worldmail.

    By that I mean, if I have an account within a domain named
BILL at whatever dot com how can i get any email address NOT recognized as an
account pushed to BILL at whatever dot com?

    So, if someone emails hillaryClinton at whatever dot com, or sales at whatever dot com
how can i get those emails to go to BILL? Those mailboxes above dont exist,
but they should still go to somebody! right?

    Right now, i have it set for "all non deliverable mail should forward to
so-n-so." But that is only delivering the undeliverable mail message.
(e.g. - "the following message was undeliverable")

    and ideas?

    Thanks!
      ........................................
      Ben Saren
      ben at atomicusa dot com


------=_NextPart_000_00F2_01C0E378.22C0DF60
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; 
charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4613.1700" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=169210215-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff size=2>Tom, 
I appreciate your email. However, there is in fact NO way to do what I 
am 
requesting. According to Qualcomm, and many others... it wont work. I 
know how 
to create an alias, thanks for your lesson.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=169210215-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=169210215-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff size=2>I 
want a wildcard alias. So even if i dont have an alias for BILLCLINTON@ 
... mail 
will STILL go to a recipient. But, there is no way to do this. You can 
with 
EIMS, but not with Worldmail. A real 
dissappointment.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=169210215-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=169210215-23052001></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Tom Kemp 
  [mailto:KempT at presearch dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 23, 2001 
10:50 
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> Ben Saren<BR><B>Cc:</B> Subscribers of 
  WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=173364414-23052001><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff 
  size=2>That's a very simple question.&nbsp; Obviously you haven't 
used 
  Worldmail before!&nbsp; If you right-click on the domain you want to 
add a 
  user, alias, robot, etc. to, you will get a menu with these 
options.&nbsp; If 
  you select Alias, it asks you for the alias name, then the actual 
account you 
  want it to go to.&nbsp; That won't reveal the destination account to 
people 
  when they send you email...only if your reply to it, and have your 
email reply 
  address set to the real address, and not&nbsp;an 
alias.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=173364414-23052001><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=173364414-23052001><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2>A 
  word of caution:&nbsp; Aliases don't work if you disable relay for 
your 
  server.&nbsp; It will continue to work for emails sent from permitted 
IP's, 
  such as your internal network, but not for others.&nbsp; The best way 
to 
  handle this is to creat Groups instead of aliases.&nbsp; You would 
simply make 
  the members of the groups the actual addresses.&nbsp; I haven't tried 
it yet, 
  but I'll bet that you could put aliases into a distribution group and 
have the 
  aliases set to forward to an actual account, and have this work fine 
without 
  relaying enabled.&nbsp; It might be worth a shot..</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <P><FONT size=2>Dennis T. Kemp II (Tom Kemp)<BR>MCSE/CCNAv2/Program 
  Manager<BR>Control Concepts, Inc.<BR>703-876-6418<BR>Fax:&nbsp; 
  703-876-6416<BR>KempT at presearch dot com</FONT> </P>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
    size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
    [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 21, 2001 2:49 

    PM<BR><B>To:</B> Subscribers of WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> 
    aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2>Hi all, this is 
    my first time using this system, I hope to get some good 
    feedback!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
    size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>I 
would like to 
    use mail aliasing in Worldmail.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
    size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2>By that I mean, 
    if I have an account within a domain named </FONT><A 
    href="mailto:BILL@whatever dot com"><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#000000 
    size=2>BILL at whatever dot com</FONT></A><FONT face=Tahoma 
    size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
    size=2>how can i get any email address NOT recognized as an 
account pushed 
    to <A 
    
href="mailto:BILL at whatever dot com">BILL@whatever dot com</A>?</FONT></SPAN></D
IV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
    size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2>So, if someone 
    emails <A 
    
href="mailto:hillaryClinton at whatever dot com">hillaryClinton@whatever dot com</
A>, 
    or <A href="mailto:sales at whatever dot com">sales@whatever dot com</A> how 
can i get 
    those emails to go to BILL? Those mailboxes above dont exist, but 
they 
    should still go to somebody! right?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
    size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2>Right now, i 
    have it set for "all non deliverable mail should forward to 
so-n-so." But 
    that is only delivering the undeliverable mail message. (e.g. - "the 

    following message was undeliverable")</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
    size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2>and 
    ideas?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
    size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
    size=2>Thanks!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DL>
      <DT><FONT color=#808080 
      size=2>........................................</FONT> 
      <DT><FONT color=#808080 size=2><B>Ben Saren</B></FONT> 
      <DT><FONT color=#808080 
size=2>ben at atomicusa dot com</FONT></DT></DL>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_00F2_01C0E378.22C0DF60--


From: Dave Salovesh <salovesh at ramassociates dot com>
Subject: RE: aliases
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:18:51 -0400

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0E39B.AC84385A
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

You can set a "single mail box" domain, per
http://www.eudora.com/techsupport/kb/1882hq.html
<http://www.eudora.com/techsupport/kb/1882hq.html> 
 
Apparently that process directs ALL mail in a domain to the mailbox you
specify, so I'm not sure if it will help you.
 
The KB note says "This process is unreliable and does not always work and
therefore is not recommended for general use." but I've done it a couple of
times without trouble.

--
Dave Salovesh
RAM Associates, Inc.
(202) 543-3635



-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:04 AM
To: Tom Kemp
Cc: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


Tom, I appreciate your email. However, there is in fact NO way to do what I
am requesting. According to Qualcomm, and many others... it wont work. I
know how to create an alias, thanks for your lesson.
 
I want a wildcard alias. So even if i dont have an alias for BILLCLINTON@
... mail will STILL go to a recipient. But, there is no way to do this. You
can with EIMS, but not with Worldmail. A real dissappointment.
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Kemp [mailto:KempT at presearch dot com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 10:50 AM
To: Ben Saren
Cc: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


That's a very simple question.  Obviously you haven't used Worldmail before!
If you right-click on the domain you want to add a user, alias, robot, etc.
to, you will get a menu with these options.  If you select Alias, it asks
you for the alias name, then the actual account you want it to go to.  That
won't reveal the destination account to people when they send you
email...only if your reply to it, and have your email reply address set to
the real address, and not an alias.
 
A word of caution:  Aliases don't work if you disable relay for your server.
It will continue to work for emails sent from permitted IP's, such as your
internal network, but not for others.  The best way to handle this is to
creat Groups instead of aliases.  You would simply make the members of the
groups the actual addresses.  I haven't tried it yet, but I'll bet that you
could put aliases into a distribution group and have the aliases set to
forward to an actual account, and have this work fine without relaying
enabled.  It might be worth a shot..
 

Dennis T. Kemp II (Tom Kemp)
MCSE/CCNAv2/Program Manager
Control Concepts, Inc.
703-876-6418
Fax:  703-876-6416
KempT at presearch dot com 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 2:49 PM
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: aliases


Hi all, this is my first time using this system, I hope to get some good
feedback!
 
I would like to use mail aliasing in Worldmail.
 
By that I mean, if I have an account within a domain named
<BILL at whatever.com> BILL at whatever dot com how can i get any email address
NOT recognized as an account pushed to BILL at whatever dot com
<mailto:BILL at whatever dot com> ?
 
So, if someone emails hillaryClinton at whatever dot com
<hillaryClinton at whatever.com> , or sales at whatever dot com
<mailto:sales at whatever dot com>  how can i get those emails to go to BILL? Those
mailboxes above dont exist, but they should still go to somebody! right?
 
Right now, i have it set for "all non deliverable mail should forward to
so-n-so." But that is only delivering the undeliverable mail message. (e.g.
- "the following message was undeliverable")
 
and ideas?
 
Thanks!

........................................ 

Ben Saren 

ben at atomicusa dot com

 


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<META content="MSHTML 5.00.3315.2869" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=550570215-23052001>You 
can set a "single mail box" domain, per <A 
href="http://www.eudora.com/techsupport/kb/1882hq.html">http://www.eudora.com/techsupport/kb/1882hq.html</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=550570215-23052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=550570215-23052001>Apparently that process directs ALL mail in a domain to 
the mailbox you specify, so I'm not sure if it will help 
you.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=550570215-23052001></SPAN></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
size=2><SPAN class=550570215-23052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=550570215-23052001>The KB 
note says "This process is unreliable and does not always work and therefore is 
not recommended for general use." but I've done it a couple of times without 
trouble.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P><FONT size=2>--<BR>Dave Salovesh<BR>RAM Associates, Inc.<BR>(202) 
543-3635<BR><BR></FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
  [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:04 
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> Tom Kemp<BR><B>Cc:</B> Subscribers of 
  WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: aliases<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV><SPAN class=169210215-23052001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Tahoma 
  size=2>Tom, I appreciate your email. However, there is in fact NO way to do 
  what I am requesting. According to Qualcomm, and many others... it wont work. 
  I know how to create an alias, thanks for your lesson.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=169210215-23052001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Tahoma 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=169210215-23052001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Tahoma size=2>I 
  want a wildcard alias. So even if i dont have an alias for BILLCLINTON@ ... 
  mail will STILL go to a recipient. But, there is no way to do this. You can 
  with EIMS, but not with Worldmail. A real dissappointment.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=169210215-23052001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Tahoma 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=169210215-23052001></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma 
    size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Tom Kemp 
    [mailto:KempT at presearch dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 23, 2001 10:50 
    AM<BR><B>To:</B> Ben Saren<BR><B>Cc:</B> Subscribers of 
    WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=173364414-23052001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
    size=2>That's a very simple question.&nbsp; Obviously you haven't used 
    Worldmail before!&nbsp; If you right-click on the domain you want to add a 
    user, alias, robot, etc. to, you will get a menu with these options.&nbsp; 
    If you select Alias, it asks you for the alias name, then the actual account 
    you want it to go to.&nbsp; That won't reveal the destination account to 
    people when they send you email...only if your reply to it, and have your 
    email reply address set to the real address, and not&nbsp;an 
    alias.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=173364414-23052001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
    size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=173364414-23052001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2>A 
    word of caution:&nbsp; Aliases don't work if you disable relay for your 
    server.&nbsp; It will continue to work for emails sent from permitted IP's, 
    such as your internal network, but not for others.&nbsp; The best way to 
    handle this is to creat Groups instead of aliases.&nbsp; You would simply 
    make the members of the groups the actual addresses.&nbsp; I haven't tried 
    it yet, but I'll bet that you could put aliases into a distribution group 
    and have the aliases set to forward to an actual account, and have this work 
    fine without relaying enabled.&nbsp; It might be worth a 
    shot..</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <P><FONT size=2>Dennis T. Kemp II (Tom Kemp)<BR>MCSE/CCNAv2/Program 
    Manager<BR>Control Concepts, Inc.<BR>703-876-6418<BR>Fax:&nbsp; 
    703-876-6416<BR>KempT at presearch dot com</FONT> </P>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
      size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
      [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 21, 2001 2:49 
      PM<BR><B>To:</B> Subscribers of WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> 
      aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>Hi all, this 
      is my first time using this system, I hope to get some good 
      feedback!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
      size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>I would like 
      to use mail aliasing in Worldmail.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
      size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>By that I 
      mean, if I have an account within a domain named </FONT><A 
      href="mailto:BILL@whatever dot com"><FONT color=#000000 face=Tahoma 
      size=2>BILL at whatever dot com</FONT></A><FONT face=Tahoma 
      size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT 
      face=Tahoma size=2>how can i get any email address NOT recognized as an 
      account pushed to <A 
      href="mailto:BILL at whatever dot com">BILL@whatever dot com</A>?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
      size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>So, if 
      someone emails <A 
      href="mailto:hillaryClinton at whatever dot com">hillaryClinton@whatever dot com</A>, 
      or <A href="mailto:sales at whatever dot com">sales@whatever dot com</A> how can i 
      get those emails to go to BILL? Those mailboxes above dont exist, but they 
      should still go to somebody! right?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
      size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>Right now, i 
      have it set for "all non deliverable mail should forward to so-n-so." But 
      that is only delivering the undeliverable mail message. (e.g. - "the 
      following message was undeliverable")</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
      size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>and 
      ideas?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
      size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
      size=2>Thanks!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DL>
        <DT><FONT color=#808080 
        size=2>........................................</FONT> 
        <DT><FONT color=#808080 size=2><B>Ben Saren</B></FONT> 
        <DT><FONT color=#808080 size=2>ben at atomicusa dot com</FONT></DT></DL>
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0E39B.AC84385A--

From: "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
Subject: RE: aliases
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:30:34 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Okay, BUT...

Lets say there is NO MAILBOX OR ALIAS for GORBECHEV at mydomain dot com .... and I
want to receive that message. LIke in EIMS, and other mail servers apps, ALL
mail that comes in to an address that DOES NOT EXIST on the system to
forward to one that does. Its not a hard concept, and I would think that
Worldmail would do it... seeing as their nearly-free product DOES do it!

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Dave Salovesh [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]
  Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:19 AM
  To: 'Ben Saren'
  Cc: Subscribers of WorldMail
  Subject: RE: aliases


  You can set a "single mail box" domain, per
http://www.eudora.com/techsupport/kb/1882hq.html

  Apparently that process directs ALL mail in a domain to the mailbox you
specify, so I'm not sure if it will help you.

  The KB note says "This process is unreliable and does not always work and
therefore is not recommended for general use." but I've done it a couple of
times without trouble.
  --
  Dave Salovesh
  RAM Associates, Inc.
  (202) 543-3635



    -----Original Message-----
    From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
    Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:04 AM
    To: Tom Kemp
    Cc: Subscribers of WorldMail
    Subject: RE: aliases


    Tom, I appreciate your email. However, there is in fact NO way to do
what I am requesting. According to Qualcomm, and many others... it wont
work. I know how to create an alias, thanks for your lesson.

    I want a wildcard alias. So even if i dont have an alias for
BILLCLINTON@ ... mail will STILL go to a recipient. But, there is no way to
do this. You can with EIMS, but not with Worldmail. A real dissappointment.


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Tom Kemp [mailto:KempT at presearch dot com]
      Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 10:50 AM
      To: Ben Saren
      Cc: Subscribers of WorldMail
      Subject: RE: aliases


      That's a very simple question.  Obviously you haven't used Worldmail
before!  If you right-click on the domain you want to add a user, alias,
robot, etc. to, you will get a menu with these options.  If you select
Alias, it asks you for the alias name, then the actual account you want it
to go to.  That won't reveal the destination account to people when they
send you email...only if your reply to it, and have your email reply address
set to the real address, and not an alias.

      A word of caution:  Aliases don't work if you disable relay for your
server.  It will continue to work for emails sent from permitted IP's, such
as your internal network, but not for others.  The best way to handle this
is to creat Groups instead of aliases.  You would simply make the members of
the groups the actual addresses.  I haven't tried it yet, but I'll bet that
you could put aliases into a distribution group and have the aliases set to
forward to an actual account, and have this work fine without relaying
enabled.  It might be worth a shot..

      Dennis T. Kemp II (Tom Kemp)
      MCSE/CCNAv2/Program Manager
      Control Concepts, Inc.
      703-876-6418
      Fax:  703-876-6416
      KempT at presearch dot com


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
        Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 2:49 PM
        To: Subscribers of WorldMail
        Subject: aliases


        Hi all, this is my first time using this system, I hope to get some
good feedback!

        I would like to use mail aliasing in Worldmail.

        By that I mean, if I have an account within a domain named
BILL at whatever dot com how can i get any email address NOT recognized as an
account pushed to BILL at whatever dot com?

        So, if someone emails hillaryClinton at whatever dot com, or
sales at whatever dot com how can i get those emails to go to BILL? Those mailboxes
above dont exist, but they should still go to somebody! right?

        Right now, i have it set for "all non deliverable mail should
forward to so-n-so." But that is only delivering the undeliverable mail
message. (e.g. - "the following message was undeliverable")

        and ideas?

        Thanks!
          ........................................
          Ben Saren
          ben at atomicusa dot com


------=_NextPart_000_0111_01C0E37B.C7F2BAF0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; 
charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4613.1700" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=018022715-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff size=2>Okay, 
BUT...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=018022715-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=018022715-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff size=2>Lets 
say there is NO MAILBOX OR ALIAS for GORBECHEV at mydomain dot com .... and I 
want to 
receive that message. LIke in EIMS, and other mail servers apps, ALL 
mail that 
comes in to an address that DOES NOT EXIST on the system to forward to 
one that 
does. Its not a hard concept, and I would think that Worldmail would do 
it... 
seeing as their nearly-free product DOES do it!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=018022715-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Dave Salovesh 
  [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 23, 
2001 
  11:19 AM<BR><B>To:</B> 'Ben Saren'<BR><B>Cc:</B> Subscribers of 
  WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=550570215-23052001>You 
  can set a "single mail box" domain, per <A 
  
href="http://www.eudora.com/techsupport/kb/1882hq.html">http://www.eudo
ra.com/techsupport/kb/1882hq.html</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=550570215-23052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=550570215-23052001>Apparently that process directs ALL mail in 
a domain 
  to the mailbox you specify, so I'm not sure if it will help 
  you.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=550570215-23052001></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff 
  size=2><SPAN class=550570215-23052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=550570215-23052001>The 
  KB note says "This process is unreliable and does not always work and 
  therefore is not recommended for general use." but I've done it a 
couple of 
  times without trouble.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <P><FONT size=2>--<BR>Dave Salovesh<BR>RAM Associates, Inc.<BR>(202) 

  543-3635<BR><BR></FONT></P>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
  style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px 
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
    size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
    [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 23, 2001 
11:04 
    AM<BR><B>To:</B> Tom Kemp<BR><B>Cc:</B> Subscribers of 
    WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: aliases<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <DIV><SPAN class=169210215-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2>Tom, I appreciate your email. However, there is in fact NO 
way to do 
    what I am requesting. According to Qualcomm, and many others... it 
wont 
    work. I know how to create an alias, thanks for your 
    lesson.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=169210215-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=169210215-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff size=2>I 
    want a wildcard alias. So even if i dont have an alias for 
BILLCLINTON@ ... 
    mail will STILL go to a recipient. But, there is no way to do this. 
You can 
    with EIMS, but not with Worldmail. A real 
    dissappointment.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=169210215-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=169210215-23052001></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
      size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Tom Kemp 
      [mailto:KempT at presearch dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 23, 
2001 10:50 
      AM<BR><B>To:</B> Ben Saren<BR><B>Cc:</B> Subscribers of 
      WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=173364414-23052001><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff 
      size=2>That's a very simple question.&nbsp; Obviously you 
haven't used 
      Worldmail before!&nbsp; If you right-click on the domain you want 
to add a 
      user, alias, robot, etc. to, you will get a menu with these 
options.&nbsp; 
      If you select Alias, it asks you for the alias name, then the 
actual 
      account you want it to go to.&nbsp; That won't reveal the 
destination 
      account to people when they send you email...only if your reply to 
it, and 
      have your email reply address set to the real address, and 
not&nbsp;an 
      alias.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=173364414-23052001><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff 
      size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=173364414-23052001><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff 
      size=2>A word of caution:&nbsp; Aliases don't work if you 
disable relay 
      for your server.&nbsp; It will continue to work for emails sent 
from 
      permitted IP's, such as your internal network, but not for 
others.&nbsp; 
      The best way to handle this is to creat Groups instead of 
aliases.&nbsp; 
      You would simply make the members of the groups the actual 
      addresses.&nbsp; I haven't tried it yet, but I'll bet that you 
could put 
      aliases into a distribution group and have the aliases set to 
forward to 
      an actual account, and have this work fine without relaying 
enabled.&nbsp; 
      It might be worth a shot..</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <P><FONT size=2>Dennis T. Kemp II (Tom 
Kemp)<BR>MCSE/CCNAv2/Program 
      Manager<BR>Control Concepts, Inc.<BR>703-876-6418<BR>Fax:&nbsp; 
      703-876-6416<BR>KempT at presearch dot com</FONT> </P>
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" 

        size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
        [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 21, 2001 
2:49 
        PM<BR><B>To:</B> Subscribers of WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> 
        aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2>Hi all, 
        this is my first time using this system, I hope to get some good 

        feedback!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
        size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2>I would 
        like to use mail aliasing in Worldmail.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
        size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2>By that I 
        mean, if I have an account within a domain named </FONT><A 
        href="mailto:BILL@whatever dot com"><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#000000 
        size=2>BILL at whatever dot com</FONT></A><FONT face=Tahoma 
        size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN 
class=520354518-21052001><FONT 
        face=Tahoma size=2>how can i get any email address NOT 
recognized as an 
        account pushed to <A 
        
href="mailto:BILL at whatever dot com">BILL@whatever dot com</A>?</FONT></SPAN></D
IV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
        size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2>So, if 
        someone emails <A 
        
href="mailto:hillaryClinton at whatever dot com">hillaryClinton@whatever dot com</
A>, 
        or <A href="mailto:sales at whatever dot com">sales@whatever dot com</A> 
how can i 
        get those emails to go to BILL? Those mailboxes above dont 
exist, but 
        they should still go to somebody! right?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
        size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2>Right now, 
        i have it set for "all non deliverable mail should forward to 
so-n-so." 
        But that is only delivering the undeliverable mail message. 
(e.g. - "the 
        following message was undeliverable")</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
        size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2>and 
        ideas?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
        size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
        size=2>Thanks!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
        <DL>
          <DT><FONT color=#808080 
          size=2>........................................</FONT> 
          <DT><FONT color=#808080 size=2><B>Ben Saren</B></FONT> 
          <DT><FONT color=#808080 
size=2>ben at atomicusa dot com</FONT></DT></DL>
        
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BO
DY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0111_01C0E37B.C7F2BAF0--


From: "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
Subject: RE: aliases
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:13:32 -0400

I agree. That feature is only half of what i need. Its only good for junk
mail, thats right. And it only pushes the undeliverable email message thru
as an attachment, so my clients wouldnt like that very much. Oh well..



-----Original Message-----
From: Jefferson Scher [mailto:jscher at carr-ferrell dot com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 12:09 PM
To: 'Ben Saren'
Cc: 'Subscribers of WorldMail'
Subject: RE: aliases


Ben Saren wrote:

> Right now, i have it set for "all non deliverable mail should forward
> to so-n-so." But that is only delivering the undeliverable mail
> message. (e.g. - "the following message was undeliverable")

Ours had the original message as an attachment (client was Outlook Express
5.x), and this appeared to be quite reliable.  However, due to huge volumes
of junk mail sent to former employees, as well as delays in reviewing the
undeliverable mail, we no longer attempt to capture it and just let it
bounce back.

-Jefferson



From: "Chris Lander" <chris at altuscorp dot com>
Subject: RE: aliases
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:10:07 -0700

When undeliverable messages get delivered to me, the actual message is
included as an attachment. I realize this isn't exactly what you're looking
for, but it's better than nothing. I'm not sure exactly where in the
administration control panel you set this up, but you'll probably find it.

+---------------------------------------------------------+
Chris Lander                   Altus Learning Systems, Inc.
chris at altuscorp dot com                          (408) 210-7409
+---------------------------------------------------------+
-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 08:31
To: Dave Salovesh
Cc: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


Okay, BUT...

Lets say there is NO MAILBOX OR ALIAS for GORBECHEV at mydomain dot com .... and I
want to receive that message. LIke in EIMS, and other mail servers apps, ALL
mail that comes in to an address that DOES NOT EXIST on the system to
forward to one that does. Its not a hard concept, and I would think that
Worldmail would do it... seeing as their nearly-free product DOES do it!

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Salovesh [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:19 AM
To: 'Ben Saren'
Cc: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


You can set a "single mail box" domain, per
http://www.eudora.com/techsupport/kb/1882hq.html

Apparently that process directs ALL mail in a domain to the mailbox you
specify, so I'm not sure if it will help you.

The KB note says "This process is unreliable and does not always work and
therefore is not recommended for general use." but I've done it a couple of
times without trouble.
--
Dave Salovesh
RAM Associates, Inc.
(202) 543-3635


-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:04 AM
To: Tom Kemp
Cc: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


Tom, I appreciate your email. However, there is in fact NO way to do what I
am requesting. According to Qualcomm, and many others... it wont work. I
know how to create an alias, thanks for your lesson.

I want a wildcard alias. So even if i dont have an alias for BILLCLINTON@
... mail will STILL go to a recipient. But, there is no way to do this. You
can with EIMS, but not with Worldmail. A real dissappointment.


-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Kemp [mailto:KempT at presearch dot com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 10:50 AM
To: Ben Saren
Cc: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


That's a very simple question.  Obviously you haven't used Worldmail before!
If you right-click on the domain you want to add a user, alias, robot, etc.
to, you will get a menu with these options.  If you select Alias, it asks
you for the alias name, then the actual account you want it to go to.  That
won't reveal the destination account to people when they send you
email...only if your reply to it, and have your email reply address set to
the real address, and not an alias.

A word of caution:  Aliases don't work if you disable relay for your server.
It will continue to work for emails sent from permitted IP's, such as your
internal network, but not for others.  The best way to handle this is to
creat Groups instead of aliases.  You would simply make the members of the
groups the actual addresses.  I haven't tried it yet, but I'll bet that you
could put aliases into a distribution group and have the aliases set to
forward to an actual account, and have this work fine without relaying
enabled.  It might be worth a shot..

Dennis T. Kemp II (Tom Kemp)
MCSE/CCNAv2/Program Manager
Control Concepts, Inc.
703-876-6418
Fax:  703-876-6416
KempT at presearch dot com

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 2:49 PM
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: aliases


Hi all, this is my first time using this system, I hope to get some good
feedback!

I would like to use mail aliasing in Worldmail.

By that I mean, if I have an account within a domain named BILL at whatever dot com
how can i get any email address NOT recognized as an account pushed to
BILL at whatever dot com?

So, if someone emails hillaryClinton at whatever dot com, or sales at whatever dot com how
can i get those emails to go to BILL? Those mailboxes above dont exist, but
they should still go to somebody! right?

Right now, i have it set for "all non deliverable mail should forward to
so-n-so." But that is only delivering the undeliverable mail message.
(e.g. - "the following message was undeliverable")

and ideas?

Thanks!
........................................
Ben Saren
ben at atomicusa dot com


From: "Jefferson Scher" <jscher at carr-ferrell dot com>
Subject: RE: aliases
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:09:20 -0700

Ben Saren wrote:

> Right now, i have it set for "all non deliverable mail should forward
> to so-n-so." But that is only delivering the undeliverable mail
> message. (e.g. - "the following message was undeliverable")

Ours had the original message as an attachment (client was Outlook Express
5.x), and this appeared to be quite reliable.  However, due to huge volumes
of junk mail sent to former employees, as well as delays in reviewing the
undeliverable mail, we no longer attempt to capture it and just let it
bounce back.

-Jefferson


From: "Brian Augustine" <brian at meetingsplus dot com>
Subject: RE: aliases
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:34:16 -0700

I am currently checking all of the undeliverable incoming mail - and its
true, a lot of it is junk mail for old employees.

Worldmail supports "inactive" users, that rejects mail sent to them.  That
is one way to weed out a lot of the junkmail.

-Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 9:14 AM
To: jscher at carr-ferrell dot com
Cc: 'Subscribers of WorldMail'
Subject: RE: aliases


I agree. That feature is only half of what i need. Its only good for junk
mail, thats right. And it only pushes the undeliverable email message thru
as an attachment, so my clients wouldnt like that very much. Oh well..



-----Original Message-----
From: Jefferson Scher [mailto:jscher at carr-ferrell dot com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 12:09 PM
To: 'Ben Saren'
Cc: 'Subscribers of WorldMail'
Subject: RE: aliases


Ben Saren wrote:

> Right now, i have it set for "all non deliverable mail should forward
> to so-n-so." But that is only delivering the undeliverable mail
> message. (e.g. - "the following message was undeliverable")

Ours had the original message as an attachment (client was Outlook Express
5.x), and this appeared to be quite reliable.  However, due to huge volumes
of junk mail sent to former employees, as well as delays in reviewing the
undeliverable mail, we no longer attempt to capture it and just let it
bounce back.

-Jefferson



From: Ian Homewood <ianh at stanley.co dot uk>
Subject: RE: aliases
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 17:35:41 +0100

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0E3A6.67C0AA90
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

If you right click on your local domain and select configure domain, you can
enter a mailbox to which all undeliverable mail is forwarded.  We use this
and have no problems with it whatsoever.
 
Ian

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 16:31
To: Dave Salovesh
Cc: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


Okay, BUT...
 
Lets say there is NO MAILBOX OR ALIAS for GORBECHEV at mydomain dot com .... and I
want to receive that message. LIke in EIMS, and other mail servers apps, ALL
mail that comes in to an address that DOES NOT EXIST on the system to
forward to one that does. Its not a hard concept, and I would think that
Worldmail would do it... seeing as their nearly-free product DOES do it!
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Salovesh [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:19 AM
To: 'Ben Saren'
Cc: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


You can set a "single mail box" domain, per
http://www.eudora.com/techsupport/kb/1882hq.html
<http://www.eudora.com/techsupport/kb/1882hq.html> 
 
Apparently that process directs ALL mail in a domain to the mailbox you
specify, so I'm not sure if it will help you.
 
The KB note says "This process is unreliable and does not always work and
therefore is not recommended for general use." but I've done it a couple of
times without trouble.

--
Dave Salovesh
RAM Associates, Inc.
(202) 543-3635



-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:04 AM
To: Tom Kemp
Cc: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


Tom, I appreciate your email. However, there is in fact NO way to do what I
am requesting. According to Qualcomm, and many others... it wont work. I
know how to create an alias, thanks for your lesson.
 
I want a wildcard alias. So even if i dont have an alias for BILLCLINTON@
... mail will STILL go to a recipient. But, there is no way to do this. You
can with EIMS, but not with Worldmail. A real dissappointment.
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Kemp [mailto:KempT at presearch dot com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 10:50 AM
To: Ben Saren
Cc: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


That's a very simple question.  Obviously you haven't used Worldmail before!
If you right-click on the domain you want to add a user, alias, robot, etc.
to, you will get a menu with these options.  If you select Alias, it asks
you for the alias name, then the actual account you want it to go to.  That
won't reveal the destination account to people when they send you
email...only if your reply to it, and have your email reply address set to
the real address, and not an alias.
 
A word of caution:  Aliases don't work if you disable relay for your server.
It will continue to work for emails sent from permitted IP's, such as your
internal network, but not for others.  The best way to handle this is to
creat Groups instead of aliases.  You would simply make the members of the
groups the actual addresses.  I haven't tried it yet, but I'll bet that you
could put aliases into a distribution group and have the aliases set to
forward to an actual account, and have this work fine without relaying
enabled.  It might be worth a shot..
 

Dennis T. Kemp II (Tom Kemp)
MCSE/CCNAv2/Program Manager
Control Concepts, Inc.
703-876-6418
Fax:  703-876-6416
KempT at presearch dot com 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 2:49 PM
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: aliases


Hi all, this is my first time using this system, I hope to get some good
feedback!
 
I would like to use mail aliasing in Worldmail.
 
By that I mean, if I have an account within a domain named
<BILL at whatever.com> BILL at whatever dot com how can i get any email address
NOT recognized as an account pushed to BILL at whatever dot com
<mailto:BILL at whatever dot com> ?
 
So, if someone emails hillaryClinton at whatever dot com
<hillaryClinton at whatever.com> , or sales at whatever dot com
<mailto:sales at whatever dot com>  how can i get those emails to go to BILL? Those
mailboxes above dont exist, but they should still go to somebody! right?
 
Right now, i have it set for "all non deliverable mail should forward to
so-n-so." But that is only delivering the undeliverable mail message. (e.g.
- "the following message was undeliverable")
 
and ideas?
 
Thanks!

........................................ 

Ben Saren 

ben at atomicusa dot com

 



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<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">


<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4613.1700" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=610403316-23052001><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff 
size=2>If you right click on your local domain and select configure domain, you 
can enter a mailbox to which all undeliverable mail is forwarded.&nbsp; We use 
this and have no problems with it whatsoever.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=610403316-23052001><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=610403316-23052001><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff 
size=2>Ian</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
  [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 23, 2001 
  16:31<BR><B>To:</B> Dave Salovesh<BR><B>Cc:</B> Subscribers of 
  WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=018022715-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma color=#0000ff 
  size=2>Okay, BUT...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=018022715-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma color=#0000ff 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=018022715-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma color=#0000ff 
  size=2>Lets say there is NO MAILBOX OR ALIAS for GORBECHEV at mydomain dot com .... 
  and I want to receive that message. LIke in EIMS, and other mail servers apps, 
  ALL mail that comes in to an address that DOES NOT EXIST on the system to 
  forward to one that does. Its not a hard concept, and I would think that 
  Worldmail would do it... seeing as their nearly-free product DOES do 
  it!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=018022715-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma color=#0000ff 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma 
    size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Dave Salovesh 
    [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 23, 2001 
    11:19 AM<BR><B>To:</B> 'Ben Saren'<BR><B>Cc:</B> Subscribers of 
    WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class=550570215-23052001>You can set a "single mail box" domain, per <A 
    href="http://www.eudora.com/techsupport/kb/1882hq.html">http://www.eudora.com/techsupport/kb/1882hq.html</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class=550570215-23052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class=550570215-23052001>Apparently that process directs ALL mail in a 
    domain to the mailbox you specify, so I'm not sure if it will help 
    you.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class=550570215-23052001></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
    size=2><SPAN class=550570215-23052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class=550570215-23052001>The KB note says "This process is unreliable and 
    does not always work and therefore is not recommended for general use." but 
    I've done it a couple of times without trouble.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <P><FONT size=2>--<BR>Dave Salovesh<BR>RAM Associates, Inc.<BR>(202) 
    543-3635<BR><BR></FONT></P>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
    style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma 
      size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
      [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:04 
      AM<BR><B>To:</B> Tom Kemp<BR><B>Cc:</B> Subscribers of 
      WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: aliases<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
      <DIV><SPAN class=169210215-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma color=#0000ff 
      size=2>Tom, I appreciate your email. However, there is in fact NO way to 
      do what I am requesting. According to Qualcomm, and many others... it wont 
      work. I know how to create an alias, thanks for your 
      lesson.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=169210215-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma color=#0000ff 
      size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=169210215-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma color=#0000ff 
      size=2>I want a wildcard alias. So even if i dont have an alias for 
      BILLCLINTON@ ... mail will STILL go to a recipient. But, there is no way 
      to do this. You can with EIMS, but not with Worldmail. A real 
      dissappointment.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=169210215-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma color=#0000ff 
      size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=169210215-23052001></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma 
        size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Tom Kemp 
        [mailto:KempT at presearch dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 23, 2001 
        10:50 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Ben Saren<BR><B>Cc:</B> Subscribers of 
        WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=173364414-23052001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
        size=2>That's a very simple question.&nbsp; Obviously you haven't used 
        Worldmail before!&nbsp; If you right-click on the domain you want to add 
        a user, alias, robot, etc. to, you will get a menu with these 
        options.&nbsp; If you select Alias, it asks you for the alias name, then 
        the actual account you want it to go to.&nbsp; That won't reveal the 
        destination account to people when they send you email...only if your 
        reply to it, and have your email reply address set to the real address, 
        and not&nbsp;an alias.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=173364414-23052001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
        size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=173364414-23052001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
        size=2>A word of caution:&nbsp; Aliases don't work if you disable relay 
        for your server.&nbsp; It will continue to work for emails sent from 
        permitted IP's, such as your internal network, but not for others.&nbsp; 
        The best way to handle this is to creat Groups instead of aliases.&nbsp; 
        You would simply make the members of the groups the actual 
        addresses.&nbsp; I haven't tried it yet, but I'll bet that you could put 
        aliases into a distribution group and have the aliases set to forward to 
        an actual account, and have this work fine without relaying 
        enabled.&nbsp; It might be worth a shot..</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <P><FONT size=2>Dennis T. Kemp II (Tom Kemp)<BR>MCSE/CCNAv2/Program 
        Manager<BR>Control Concepts, Inc.<BR>703-876-6418<BR>Fax:&nbsp; 
        703-876-6416<BR>KempT at presearch dot com</FONT> </P>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
          <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
          size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
          [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 21, 2001 2:49 
          PM<BR><B>To:</B> Subscribers of WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> 
          aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>Hi all, 
          this is my first time using this system, I hope to get some good 
          feedback!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
          <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
          size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>I would 
          like to use mail aliasing in Worldmail.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
          <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
          size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>By that I 
          mean, if I have an account within a domain named </FONT><A 
          href="mailto:BILL@whatever dot com"><FONT face=Tahoma color=#000000 
          size=2>BILL at whatever dot com</FONT></A><FONT face=Tahoma 
          size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT 
          face=Tahoma size=2>how can i get any email address NOT recognized as 
          an account pushed to <A 
          href="mailto:BILL at whatever dot com">BILL@whatever dot com</A>?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
          <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
          size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>So, if 
          someone emails <A 
          href="mailto:hillaryClinton at whatever dot com">hillaryClinton@whatever dot com</A>, 
          or <A href="mailto:sales at whatever dot com">sales@whatever dot com</A> how can 
          i get those emails to go to BILL? Those mailboxes above dont exist, 
          but they should still go to somebody! right?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
          <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
          size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>Right 
          now, i have it set for "all non deliverable mail should forward to 
          so-n-so." But that is only delivering the undeliverable mail message. 
          (e.g. - "the following message was undeliverable")</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
          <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
          size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>and 
          ideas?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
          <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
          size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
          size=2>Thanks!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
          <DL>
            <DT><FONT color=#808080 
            size=2>........................................</FONT> 
            <DT><FONT color=#808080 size=2><B>Ben Saren</B></FONT> 
            <DT><FONT color=#808080 size=2>ben at atomicusa dot com</FONT></DT></DL>
          <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><CODE><FONT SIZE=3><BR>
<BR>
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C0E3A6.67C0AA90--

From: "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
Subject: RE: aliases
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:03:13 -0400

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Your missing the point Ian
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Ian Homewood [mailto:ianh at stanley.co dot uk]
  Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 12:36 PM
  To: 'Ben Saren'; Dave Salovesh
  Cc: Subscribers of WorldMail
  Subject: RE: aliases


  If you right click on your local domain and select configure domain, you
can enter a mailbox to which all undeliverable mail is forwarded.  We use
this and have no problems with it whatsoever.

  Ian
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
    Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 16:31
    To: Dave Salovesh
    Cc: Subscribers of WorldMail
    Subject: RE: aliases


    Okay, BUT...

    Lets say there is NO MAILBOX OR ALIAS for GORBECHEV at mydomain dot com ....
and I want to receive that message. LIke in EIMS, and other mail servers
apps, ALL mail that comes in to an address that DOES NOT EXIST on the system
to forward to one that does. Its not a hard concept, and I would think that
Worldmail would do it... seeing as their nearly-free product DOES do it!

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Dave Salovesh [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]
      Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:19 AM
      To: 'Ben Saren'
      Cc: Subscribers of WorldMail
      Subject: RE: aliases


      You can set a "single mail box" domain, per
http://www.eudora.com/techsupport/kb/1882hq.html

      Apparently that process directs ALL mail in a domain to the mailbox
you specify, so I'm not sure if it will help you.

      The KB note says "This process is unreliable and does not always work
and therefore is not recommended for general use." but I've done it a couple
of times without trouble.
      --
      Dave Salovesh
      RAM Associates, Inc.
      (202) 543-3635



        -----Original Message-----
        From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
        Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:04 AM
        To: Tom Kemp
        Cc: Subscribers of WorldMail
        Subject: RE: aliases


        Tom, I appreciate your email. However, there is in fact NO way to do
what I am requesting. According to Qualcomm, and many others... it wont
work. I know how to create an alias, thanks for your lesson.

        I want a wildcard alias. So even if i dont have an alias for
BILLCLINTON@ ... mail will STILL go to a recipient. But, there is no way to
do this. You can with EIMS, but not with Worldmail. A real dissappointment.


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Tom Kemp [mailto:KempT at presearch dot com]
          Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 10:50 AM
          To: Ben Saren
          Cc: Subscribers of WorldMail
          Subject: RE: aliases


          That's a very simple question.  Obviously you haven't used
Worldmail before!  If you right-click on the domain you want to add a user,
alias, robot, etc. to, you will get a menu with these options.  If you
select Alias, it asks you for the alias name, then the actual account you
want it to go to.  That won't reveal the destination account to people when
they send you email...only if your reply to it, and have your email reply
address set to the real address, and not an alias.

          A word of caution:  Aliases don't work if you disable relay for
your server.  It will continue to work for emails sent from permitted IP's,
such as your internal network, but not for others.  The best way to handle
this is to creat Groups instead of aliases.  You would simply make the
members of the groups the actual addresses.  I haven't tried it yet, but
I'll bet that you could put aliases into a distribution group and have the
aliases set to forward to an actual account, and have this work fine without
relaying enabled.  It might be worth a shot..

          Dennis T. Kemp II (Tom Kemp)
          MCSE/CCNAv2/Program Manager
          Control Concepts, Inc.
          703-876-6418
          Fax:  703-876-6416
          KempT at presearch dot com


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
            Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 2:49 PM
            To: Subscribers of WorldMail
            Subject: aliases


            Hi all, this is my first time using this system, I hope to get
some good feedback!

            I would like to use mail aliasing in Worldmail.

            By that I mean, if I have an account within a domain named
BILL at whatever dot com how can i get any email address NOT recognized as an
account pushed to BILL at whatever dot com?

            So, if someone emails hillaryClinton at whatever dot com, or
sales at whatever dot com how can i get those emails to go to BILL? Those mailboxes
above dont exist, but they should still go to somebody! right?

            Right now, i have it set for "all non deliverable mail should
forward to so-n-so." But that is only delivering the undeliverable mail
message. (e.g. - "the following message was undeliverable")

            and ideas?

            Thanks!
              ........................................
              Ben Saren
              ben at atomicusa dot com



  **********************************************************************
  This e-mail and its attachments are intended for those persons
  to whom it is addressed and may be confidential. If you have
  received them in error please notify the sender immediately and
  delete all records of the e-mail and its attachments from your computer.

  Unless you are the intended recipient or his/her representative you are
  not authorised to an must not, read, copy, distribute, use or rertain this
  message or any part of it.

  Any views or opinions expressed in this message are those of the
individual
  sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is
authorised
  to state them to be the views of any such entity.
  **********************************************************************


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<DIV><SPAN class„4010217-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff size=2>Your 
missing the point Ian</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ian Homewood 
  [mailto:ianh at stanley.co dot uk]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 23, 2001 
12:36 
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'Ben Saren'; Dave Salovesh<BR><B>Cc:</B> Subscribers 
of 
  WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=610403316-23052001><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" 
color=#0000ff 
  size=2>If you right click on your local domain and select configure 
domain, 
  you can enter a mailbox to which all undeliverable mail is 
forwarded.&nbsp; We 
  use this and have no problems with it whatsoever.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=610403316-23052001><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" 
color=#0000ff 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=610403316-23052001><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" 
color=#0000ff 
  size=2>Ian</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
  style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px 
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
    size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
    [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 23, 2001 
    16:31<BR><B>To:</B> Dave Salovesh<BR><B>Cc:</B> Subscribers of 
    WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=018022715-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2>Okay, BUT...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=018022715-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=018022715-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2>Lets say there is NO MAILBOX OR ALIAS for 
GORBECHEV at mydomain dot com .... 
    and I want to receive that message. LIke in EIMS, and other mail 
servers 
    apps, ALL mail that comes in to an address that DOES NOT EXIST on 
the system 
    to forward to one that does. Its not a hard concept, and I would 
think that 
    Worldmail would do it... seeing as their nearly-free product DOES do 

    it!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=018022715-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
      size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Dave Salovesh 
      [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 
23, 
      2001 11:19 AM<BR><B>To:</B> 'Ben Saren'<BR><B>Cc:</B> Subscribers 
of 
      WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
      class=550570215-23052001>You can set a "single mail box" domain, 
per <A 
      
href="http://www.eudora.com/techsupport/kb/1882hq.html">http://www.eudo
ra.com/techsupport/kb/1882hq.html</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
      class=550570215-23052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
      class=550570215-23052001>Apparently that process directs ALL 
mail in a 
      domain to the mailbox you specify, so I'm not sure if it will help 

      you.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
      class=550570215-23052001></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff 
      size=2><SPAN 
class=550570215-23052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
      class=550570215-23052001>The KB note says "This process is 
unreliable and 
      does not always work and therefore is not recommended for general 
use." 
      but I've done it a couple of times without 
trouble.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
      <P><FONT size=2>--<BR>Dave Salovesh<BR>RAM Associates, 
Inc.<BR>(202) 
      543-3635<BR><BR></FONT></P>
      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
      style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 
2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
        size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
        [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 23, 
2001 11:04 
        AM<BR><B>To:</B> Tom Kemp<BR><B>Cc:</B> Subscribers of 
        WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: aliases<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
        <DIV><SPAN class=169210215-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
        size=2>Tom, I appreciate your email. However, there is in fact 
NO way to 
        do what I am requesting. According to Qualcomm, and many 
others... it 
        wont work. I know how to create an alias, thanks for your 
        lesson.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=169210215-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
        size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=169210215-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
        size=2>I want a wildcard alias. So even if i dont have an 
alias for 
        BILLCLINTON@ ... mail will STILL go to a recipient. But, there 
is no way 
        to do this. You can with EIMS, but not with Worldmail. A real 
        dissappointment.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=169210215-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
        size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=169210215-23052001></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
          <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
          size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Tom Kemp 
          [mailto:KempT at presearch dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 
23, 2001 
          10:50 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Ben Saren<BR><B>Cc:</B> Subscribers of 
          WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><SPAN class=173364414-23052001><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff 
          size=2>That's a very simple question.&nbsp; Obviously you 
haven't used 
          Worldmail before!&nbsp; If you right-click on the domain you 
want to 
          add a user, alias, robot, etc. to, you will get a menu with 
these 
          options.&nbsp; If you select Alias, it asks you for the alias 
name, 
          then the actual account you want it to go to.&nbsp; That won't 
reveal 
          the destination account to people when they send you 
email...only if 
          your reply to it, and have your email reply address set to the 
real 
          address, and not&nbsp;an alias.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
          <DIV><SPAN class=173364414-23052001><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff 
          size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><SPAN class=173364414-23052001><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff 
          size=2>A word of caution:&nbsp; Aliases don't work if you 
disable 
          relay for your server.&nbsp; It will continue to work for 
emails sent 
          from permitted IP's, such as your internal network, but not 
for 
          others.&nbsp; The best way to handle this is to creat Groups 
instead 
          of aliases.&nbsp; You would simply make the members of the 
groups the 
          actual addresses.&nbsp; I haven't tried it yet, but I'll bet 
that you 
          could put aliases into a distribution group and have the 
aliases set 
          to forward to an actual account, and have this work fine 
without 
          relaying enabled.&nbsp; It might be worth a 
shot..</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
          <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <P><FONT size=2>Dennis T. Kemp II (Tom 
Kemp)<BR>MCSE/CCNAv2/Program 
          Manager<BR>Control Concepts, 
Inc.<BR>703-876-6418<BR>Fax:&nbsp; 
          703-876-6416<BR>KempT at presearch dot com</FONT> </P>
          <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
            <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New 
Roman" 
            size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben 
Saren 
            [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 21, 
2001 2:49 
            PM<BR><B>To:</B> Subscribers of WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> 

            aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
            <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2>Hi all, 
            this is my first time using this system, I hope to get some 
good 
            feedback!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
            <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
            size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2>I would 
            like to use mail aliasing in Worldmail.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
            <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
            size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2>By that 
            I mean, if I have an account within a domain named </FONT><A 

            href="mailto:BILL@whatever dot com"><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#000000 
            size=2>BILL at whatever dot com</FONT></A><FONT face=Tahoma 
            size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN 
class=520354518-21052001><FONT 
            face=Tahoma size=2>how can i get any email address NOT 
recognized as 
            an account pushed to <A 
            
href="mailto:BILL at whatever dot com">BILL@whatever dot com</A>?</FONT></SPAN></D
IV>
            <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
            size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2>So, if 
            someone emails <A 
            
href="mailto:hillaryClinton at whatever dot com">hillaryClinton@whatever dot com</
A>, 
            or <A 
href="mailto:sales at whatever dot com">sales@whatever dot com</A> how 
            can i get those emails to go to BILL? Those mailboxes above 
dont 
            exist, but they should still go to somebody! 
            right?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
            <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
            size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2>Right 
            now, i have it set for "all non deliverable mail should 
forward to 
            so-n-so." But that is only delivering the undeliverable mail 

            message. (e.g. - "the following message was 
            undeliverable")</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
            <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
            size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2>and 
            ideas?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
            <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
            size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV><SPAN class=520354518-21052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
            size=2>Thanks!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
            <DL>
              <DT><FONT color=#808080 
              size=2>........................................</FONT> 
              <DT><FONT color=#808080 size=2><B>Ben Saren</B></FONT> 

              <DT><FONT color=#808080 
size=2>ben at atomicusa dot com</FONT></DT></DL>
            
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BL
OCKQUOTE><CODE><FONT 
  
size=3><BR><BR>********************************************************
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  addressed and may be confidential. If you have <BR>received them in 
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  please notify the sender immediately and <BR>delete all records of the 
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  it.<BR><BR>Any views or opinions expressed in this message are those 
of the 
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  sender is authorised <BR>to state them to be the views of any such 
  
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------=_NextPart_000_0165_01C0E388.B99AEF10--


From: Dave Salovesh <salovesh at ramassociates dot com>
Subject: RE: aliases
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 14:10:52 -0400

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Ben:
 
Within WorldMail, there's no option to transparently forward undeliverable
mail.  Perhaps that's a shame for your clients, but it works the same as the
default behavior of MS-Exchange, among many others: a copy of the
undeliverable message gets forwarded as an attachment to a message sent to
the mailbox designated for such errors.  I'm tempted to argue that it would
be flat-out WRONG to transparently deliver mail that should have otherwise
bounced, but that's a whole different discussion.
 
If EIMS does everything you want it to, can you use it instead?
 
(PS - can we keep this discussion either on-list or off and cut out the
duplicates?  I'm guilty too, but I'll try...)

--
Dave Salovesh
RAM Associates, Inc.
(202) 543-3635



-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:31 AM
To: Dave Salovesh
Cc: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


Okay, BUT...
 
Lets say there is NO MAILBOX OR ALIAS for GORBECHEV at mydomain dot com .... and I
want to receive that message. LIke in EIMS, and other mail servers apps, ALL
mail that comes in to an address that DOES NOT EXIST on the system to
forward to one that does. Its not a hard concept, and I would think that
Worldmail would do it... seeing as their nearly-free product DOES do it!


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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=759164117-23052001>Ben:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=759164117-23052001>Within 
WorldMail, there's no option to transparently forward undeliverable mail.&nbsp; 
Perhaps that's a shame for your clients, but it works the same as the default 
behavior of MS-Exchange, among many others:&nbsp;a copy of the undeliverable 
message gets forwarded as an attachment to a message sent to the&nbsp;mailbox 
designated for such errors.&nbsp; I<FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=759164117-23052001>'m tempted to argue that it would be flat-out WRONG to 
transparently deliver mail that should have otherwise bounced, but that's a 
whole different discussion.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=759164117-23052001>If 
EIMS does everything you want it to, can you use it instead?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=759164117-23052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=759164117-23052001>(PS - 
can we keep this discussion either on-list or off and cut out the 
duplicates?&nbsp; I'm guilty too, but I'll try...)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P><FONT size=2>--<BR>Dave Salovesh<BR>RAM Associates, Inc.<BR>(202) 
543-3635<BR><BR></FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
  [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:31 
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> Dave Salovesh<BR><B>Cc:</B> Subscribers of 
  WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: aliases<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV><SPAN class=018022715-23052001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Tahoma 
  size=2>Okay, BUT...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=018022715-23052001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Tahoma 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=018022715-23052001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Tahoma 
  size=2>Lets say there is NO MAILBOX OR ALIAS for GORBECHEV at mydomain dot com .... 
  and I want to receive that message. LIke in EIMS, and other mail servers apps, 
  ALL mail that comes in to an address that DOES NOT EXIST on the system to 
  forward to one that does. Its not a hard concept, and I would think that 
  Worldmail would do it... seeing as their nearly-free product DOES do 
  it!</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0E3B3.B45BC29C--

From: "Tom Kemp" <KempT at presearch dot com>
Subject: RE: aliases
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 15:23:27 -0400

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I agree.  Thinking about it...if someone wanted to send a virus, all they
would need is a domain name....they could then flood the world with viruses,
just by sending to all domains they could enter in!

Dennis T. Kemp II (Tom Kemp)
MCSE/CCNAv2/Program Manager
Control Concepts, Inc.
703-876-6418
Fax:  703-876-6416
KempT at presearch dot com


  -----Original Message-----
  From: Dave Salovesh [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]
  Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 2:11 PM
  To: Subscribers of WorldMail
  Subject: RE: aliases


  Ben:

  Within WorldMail, there's no option to transparently forward undeliverable
mail.  Perhaps that's a shame for your clients, but it works the same as the
default behavior of MS-Exchange, among many others: a copy of the
undeliverable message gets forwarded as an attachment to a message sent to
the mailbox designated for such errors.  I'm tempted to argue that it would
be flat-out WRONG to transparently deliver mail that should have otherwise
bounced, but that's a whole different discussion.

  If EIMS does everything you want it to, can you use it instead?

  (PS - can we keep this discussion either on-list or off and cut out the
duplicates?  I'm guilty too, but I'll try...)
  --
  Dave Salovesh
  RAM Associates, Inc.
  (202) 543-3635



    -----Original Message-----
    From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
    Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:31 AM
    To: Dave Salovesh
    Cc: Subscribers of WorldMail
    Subject: RE: aliases


    Okay, BUT...

    Lets say there is NO MAILBOX OR ALIAS for GORBECHEV at mydomain dot com ....
and I want to receive that message. LIke in EIMS, and other mail servers
apps, ALL mail that comes in to an address that DOES NOT EXIST on the system
to forward to one that does. Its not a hard concept, and I would think that
Worldmail would do it... seeing as their nearly-free product DOES do it!

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<HTML><HEAD>
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charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4613.1700" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=04062219-23052001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>I 
agree.&nbsp; Thinking about it...if someone wanted to send a virus, all 
they 
would need is a domain name....they could then flood the world with 
viruses, 
just by sending to all domains they could enter in!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<P><FONT size=2>Dennis T. Kemp II (Tom Kemp)<BR>MCSE/CCNAv2/Program 
Manager<BR>Control Concepts, Inc.<BR>703-876-6418<BR>Fax:&nbsp; 
703-876-6416<BR>KempT at presearch dot com</FONT> </P>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Dave Salovesh 
  [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 23, 
2001 
  2:11 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Subscribers of WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: 
  aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=759164117-23052001>Ben:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=759164117-23052001>Within WorldMail, there's no option to 
transparently 
  forward undeliverable mail.&nbsp; Perhaps that's a shame for your 
clients, but 
  it works the same as the default behavior of MS-Exchange, among many 
  others:&nbsp;a copy of the undeliverable message gets forwarded as an 
  attachment to a message sent to the&nbsp;mailbox designated for such 
  errors.&nbsp; I<FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=759164117-23052001>'m tempted to argue that it would be 
flat-out WRONG 
  to transparently deliver mail that should have otherwise bounced, but 
that's a 
  whole different 
discussion.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=759164117-23052001>If 
  EIMS does everything you want it to, can you use it 
  instead?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=759164117-23052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=759164117-23052001>(PS 
  - can we keep this discussion either on-list or off and cut out the 
  duplicates?&nbsp; I'm guilty too, but I'll try...)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <P><FONT size=2>--<BR>Dave Salovesh<BR>RAM Associates, Inc.<BR>(202) 

  543-3635<BR><BR></FONT></P>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
  style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px 
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
    size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
    [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 23, 2001 
11:31 
    AM<BR><B>To:</B> Dave Salovesh<BR><B>Cc:</B> Subscribers of 
    WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: aliases<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <DIV><SPAN class=018022715-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2>Okay, BUT...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=018022715-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=018022715-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2>Lets say there is NO MAILBOX OR ALIAS for 
GORBECHEV at mydomain dot com .... 
    and I want to receive that message. LIke in EIMS, and other mail 
servers 
    apps, ALL mail that comes in to an address that DOES NOT EXIST on 
the system 
    to forward to one that does. Its not a hard concept, and I would 
think that 
    Worldmail would do it... seeing as their nearly-free product DOES do 

    it!</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0077_01C0E39C.5136E7D0--


From: "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
Subject: RE: aliases
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 16:55:07 -0400

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Unfortunately I cant use EIMS, no because i run Win2k server.

Its okay. Its a dead issue now. I just wanted to see if any of you guys had
some hacked way of doing it. No big deal.

HOWEVER, do you guys know much about the Relay settings in Worldmail? I want
to restrict relaying as much as possible, but while also not having to
manage it everytime a client wants to pop in from a different computer on a
different network. Right now its wide open. And if anyone knows those ORBS
folks, Im a bit nervous!
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Dave Salovesh [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]
  Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 2:11 PM
  To: Subscribers of WorldMail
  Subject: RE: aliases


  Ben:

  Within WorldMail, there's no option to transparently forward undeliverable
mail.  Perhaps that's a shame for your clients, but it works the same as the
default behavior of MS-Exchange, among many others: a copy of the
undeliverable message gets forwarded as an attachment to a message sent to
the mailbox designated for such errors.  I'm tempted to argue that it would
be flat-out WRONG to transparently deliver mail that should have otherwise
bounced, but that's a whole different discussion.

  If EIMS does everything you want it to, can you use it instead?

  (PS - can we keep this discussion either on-list or off and cut out the
duplicates?  I'm guilty too, but I'll try...)
  --
  Dave Salovesh
  RAM Associates, Inc.
  (202) 543-3635



    -----Original Message-----
    From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
    Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:31 AM
    To: Dave Salovesh
    Cc: Subscribers of WorldMail
    Subject: RE: aliases


    Okay, BUT...

    Lets say there is NO MAILBOX OR ALIAS for GORBECHEV at mydomain dot com ....
and I want to receive that message. LIke in EIMS, and other mail servers
apps, ALL mail that comes in to an address that DOES NOT EXIST on the system
to forward to one that does. Its not a hard concept, and I would think that
Worldmail would do it... seeing as their nearly-free product DOES do it!

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charset=iso-8859-1">
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<BODY>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=143035120-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
size=2>Unfortunately I cant use EIMS, no because i run Win2k 
server.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=143035120-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=143035120-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff size=2>Its 
okay. Its a dead issue now. I just wanted to see if any of you guys had 
some 
hacked way of doing it. No big deal.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=143035120-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=143035120-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
size=2>HOWEVER, do you guys know much about the Relay settings in 
Worldmail? I 
want to restrict relaying as much as possible, but while also not having 
to 
manage it everytime a client wants to pop in from a different computer 
on a 
different network. Right now its wide open. And if anyone knows those 
ORBS 
folks, Im a bit nervous!</FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Dave Salovesh 
  [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 23, 
2001 
  2:11 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Subscribers of WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: 
  aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=759164117-23052001>Ben:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=759164117-23052001>Within WorldMail, there's no option to 
transparently 
  forward undeliverable mail.&nbsp; Perhaps that's a shame for your 
clients, but 
  it works the same as the default behavior of MS-Exchange, among many 
  others:&nbsp;a copy of the undeliverable message gets forwarded as an 
  attachment to a message sent to the&nbsp;mailbox designated for such 
  errors.&nbsp; I<FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=759164117-23052001>'m tempted to argue that it would be 
flat-out WRONG 
  to transparently deliver mail that should have otherwise bounced, but 
that's a 
  whole different 
discussion.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=759164117-23052001>If 
  EIMS does everything you want it to, can you use it 
  instead?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=759164117-23052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=759164117-23052001>(PS 
  - can we keep this discussion either on-list or off and cut out the 
  duplicates?&nbsp; I'm guilty too, but I'll try...)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <P><FONT size=2>--<BR>Dave Salovesh<BR>RAM Associates, Inc.<BR>(202) 

  543-3635<BR><BR></FONT></P>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
  style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px 
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
    size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
    [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 23, 2001 
11:31 
    AM<BR><B>To:</B> Dave Salovesh<BR><B>Cc:</B> Subscribers of 
    WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: aliases<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <DIV><SPAN class=018022715-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2>Okay, BUT...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=018022715-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=018022715-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2>Lets say there is NO MAILBOX OR ALIAS for 
GORBECHEV at mydomain dot com .... 
    and I want to receive that message. LIke in EIMS, and other mail 
servers 
    apps, ALL mail that comes in to an address that DOES NOT EXIST on 
the system 
    to forward to one that does. Its not a hard concept, and I would 
think that 
    Worldmail would do it... seeing as their nearly-free product DOES do 

    it!</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_01CA_01C0E3A9.1EFE62E0--


From: Dave Salovesh <salovesh at ramassociates dot com>
Subject: RE: aliases
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 09:07:25 -0400

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0E452.7E17C6B4
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	charset="iso-8859-1"

Me too, but no such luck.  Either you need IP specs that exactly cover your
users and their varied habits, or you need to remain open to relaying and
hope against hope for the best.  
 
I tried the latter, and I pretty much got away with it for almost 6 months
before I had to spend ALL my time whacking spam in the outgoing queue.  A
month later, despite my efforts, one of my WorldMail IPs was on both MAPS
and ORBS and we also suffered a system break-in that turned into a bandwidth
saturation DoS for a day or two.  No mail at all, no web hosting at all.
Not good at all.
 
Since we don't offer dial-up services, it wasn't a big deal for us to shut
down all relaying and have our clients use SMTP via their connectivity
providers, but it does make us look somewhat like a small-time operation
(okay, we ARE a small-time operation, but...).
 
We need SMTP authentication, but that's yet another feature WorldMail
doesn't have now.  We may never get it, or at least not before all the
attorneys put their grandkids through law school...
 
--
Dave Salovesh
RAM Associates, Inc.
(800) 543-3635



-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 4:55 PM
To: Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


Unfortunately I cant use EIMS, no because i run Win2k server.
 
Its okay. Its a dead issue now. I just wanted to see if any of you guys had
some hacked way of doing it. No big deal.
 
HOWEVER, do you guys know much about the Relay settings in Worldmail? I want
to restrict relaying as much as possible, but while also not having to
manage it everytime a client wants to pop in from a different computer on a
different network. Right now its wide open. And if anyone knows those ORBS
folks, Im a bit nervous!


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	charset="iso-8859-1"

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">


<META content="MSHTML 5.00.3315.2869" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=641543212-24052001>Me 
too, but no such luck.&nbsp; E</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
size=2><SPAN class=641543212-24052001>ither you need IP specs that exactly cover 
your users and their varied habits, or you need to remain open to relaying and 
hope against hope for the best.&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=641543212-24052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=641543212-24052001>I 
tried the latter, and I pretty much got away with it for almost 6 months before 
I had to spend&nbsp;ALL my time whacking spam in the outgoing queue.&nbsp; A 
month later, despite my efforts, one of my WorldMail IPs was on both MAPS and 
ORBS and&nbsp;we also suffered a system break-in that turned into a bandwidth 
saturation DoS for a day or two.&nbsp; No mail at all, no web hosting at 
all.&nbsp; Not good at all.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=641543212-24052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=641543212-24052001>Since 
we don't offer dial-up services, it wasn't a big deal for us to shut down all 
relaying and have our clients use SMTP via their connectivity providers, but it 
does make us look somewhat like a small-time operation (okay, we ARE a 
small-time operation, but...).</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=641543212-24052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=641543212-24052001>We 
need SMTP authentication, but that's yet another feature WorldMail doesn't have 
now.&nbsp;&nbsp;We may never get it, or at least not before all 
the&nbsp;attorneys put their grandkids through law school...</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=641543212-24052001></SPAN></FONT><FONT size=2>--<BR>Dave Salovesh<BR>RAM 
Associates, Inc.<BR>(800) 543-3635<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
  [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 23, 2001 4:55 
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> 
  RE: aliases<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=143035120-23052001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Tahoma 
  size=2>Unfortunately I cant use EIMS, no because i run Win2k 
  server.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=143035120-23052001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Tahoma 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=143035120-23052001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Tahoma size=2>Its 
  okay. Its a dead issue now. I just wanted to see if any of you guys had some 
  hacked way of doing it. No big deal.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=143035120-23052001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Tahoma 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=143035120-23052001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Tahoma 
  size=2>HOWEVER, do you guys know much about the Relay settings in Worldmail? I 
  want to restrict relaying as much as possible, but while also not having to 
  manage it everytime a client wants to pop in from a different computer on a 
  different network. Right now its wide open. And if anyone knows those ORBS 
  folks, Im a bit nervous!</FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0E452.7E17C6B4--

Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 09:39:55 -0400
Subject: Re: aliases
From: Jeffrey Posluns <scripter at secureops dot com>

If one insists on using WorldMail for a mail store, one could theoretically
set up a mail relay with appropriate filters in front of it running
sendmail, or my favorite: postfix. These are free programs under unix, and
only require that one have a second computer to install them on. One could
also purchase a program like NAI WebShield SMTP, and install it on the same
server as WorldMail (put WebShield on port 25, and WorldMail on port 24 -
then use the Anti-Virus and Anti-Spam features of WebShield....

As a note, I use scripter at secureops dot com for receipt of mailing lists.. To
reply to me (and have me read it immediately - as opposed to every day or
two when I peruse mailng list messages) use jeff at secureops dot com

Regards all,

Jeffrey Posluns, CISA, CISSP, CCNP
Chief Technology Officer
SecureOps, Inc.
Tel: (514) 982-0678 x124
Fax: (514) 982-0362
http://www.secureops.com
PGP: 3206 DE8D 8C90 BAFE 571F
     B60A 4A8C E0FB C4D3 A922

On 5/24/01 9:07 AM, "Dave Salovesh" <salovesh at ramassociates dot com> wrote:

> Me too, but no such luck.  Either you need IP specs that exactly cover your
> users and their varied habits, or you need to remain open to relaying and hope
> against hope for the best.
> 
> I tried the latter, and I pretty much got away with it for almost 6 months
> before I had to spend ALL my time whacking spam in the outgoing queue.  A
> month later, despite my efforts, one of my WorldMail IPs was on both MAPS and
> ORBS and we also suffered a system break-in that turned into a bandwidth
> saturation DoS for a day or two.  No mail at all, no web hosting at all.  Not
> good at all.
> 
> Since we don't offer dial-up services, it wasn't a big deal for us to shut
> down all relaying and have our clients use SMTP via their connectivity
> providers, but it does make us look somewhat like a small-time operation
> (okay, we ARE a small-time operation, but...).
> 
> We need SMTP authentication, but that's yet another feature WorldMail doesn't
> have now.  We may never get it, or at least not before all the attorneys put
> their grandkids through law school...
> 
> --
> Dave Salovesh
> RAM Associates, Inc.
> (800) 543-3635
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 4:55 PM
>> To: Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail
>> Subject: RE: aliases
>> 
> Unfortunately I cant use EIMS, no because i run Win2k server.
> 
> Its okay. Its a dead issue now. I just wanted to see if any of you guys had
> some hacked way of doing it. No big deal.
> 
> HOWEVER, do you guys know much about the Relay settings in Worldmail? I want
> to restrict relaying as much as possible, but while also not having to manage
> it everytime a client wants to pop in from a different computer on a different
> network. Right now its wide open. And if anyone knows those ORBS folks, Im a
> bit nervous!
> 




From: "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
Subject: RE: aliases
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:05:55 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Wow! Thanks for that little story! I am caught between a rock and a hard
place now! I feel your pain, and I can relate to you small time operation.
Sounds like we are in the same line of biz.

So what have you done SINCE that DoS?  Have you turned on the relaying
configs?


  -----Original Message-----
  From: Dave Salovesh [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]
  Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 9:07 AM
  To: Subscribers of WorldMail
  Subject: RE: aliases


  Me too, but no such luck.  Either you need IP specs that exactly cover
your users and their varied habits, or you need to remain open to relaying
and hope against hope for the best.

  I tried the latter, and I pretty much got away with it for almost 6 months
before I had to spend ALL my time whacking spam in the outgoing queue.  A
month later, despite my efforts, one of my WorldMail IPs was on both MAPS
and ORBS and we also suffered a system break-in that turned into a bandwidth
saturation DoS for a day or two.  No mail at all, no web hosting at all.
Not good at all.

  Since we don't offer dial-up services, it wasn't a big deal for us to shut
down all relaying and have our clients use SMTP via their connectivity
providers, but it does make us look somewhat like a small-time operation
(okay, we ARE a small-time operation, but...).

  We need SMTP authentication, but that's yet another feature WorldMail
doesn't have now.  We may never get it, or at least not before all the
attorneys put their grandkids through law school...

  --
  Dave Salovesh
  RAM Associates, Inc.
  (800) 543-3635


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
    Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 4:55 PM
    To: Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail
    Subject: RE: aliases


    Unfortunately I cant use EIMS, no because i run Win2k server.

    Its okay. Its a dead issue now. I just wanted to see if any of you guys
had some hacked way of doing it. No big deal.

    HOWEVER, do you guys know much about the Relay settings in Worldmail? I
want to restrict relaying as much as possible, but while also not having to
manage it everytime a client wants to pop in from a different computer on a
different network. Right now its wide open. And if anyone knows those ORBS
folks, Im a bit nervous!

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; 
charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4613.1700" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=247120114-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff size=2>Wow! 
Thanks for that little story! I am caught between a rock and a hard 
place now! I 
feel your pain, and I can relate to you small time operation. Sounds 
like we are 
in the same line of biz.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=247120114-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=247120114-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff size=2>So 
what have you done SINCE that DoS?&nbsp; Have you turned on the relaying 

configs?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=247120114-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=247120114-24052001></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Dave Salovesh 
  [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 24, 
2001 
  9:07 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Subscribers of WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: 
  aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=641543212-24052001>Me 
  too, but no such luck.&nbsp; E</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff 
  size=2><SPAN class=641543212-24052001>ither you need IP specs that 
exactly 
  cover your users and their varied habits, or you need to remain open 
to 
  relaying and hope against hope for the best.&nbsp; 
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=641543212-24052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=641543212-24052001>I 
  tried the latter, and I pretty much got away with it for almost 6 
months 
  before I had to spend&nbsp;ALL my time whacking spam in the outgoing 
  queue.&nbsp; A month later, despite my efforts, one of my WorldMail 
IPs was on 
  both MAPS and ORBS and&nbsp;we also suffered a system break-in that 
turned 
  into a bandwidth saturation DoS for a day or two.&nbsp; No mail at 
all, no web 
  hosting at all.&nbsp; Not good at all.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=641543212-24052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=641543212-24052001>Since we don't offer dial-up services, it 
wasn't a 
  big deal for us to shut down all relaying and have our clients use 
SMTP via 
  their connectivity providers, but it does make us look somewhat like a 

  small-time operation (okay, we ARE a small-time operation, 
  but...).</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=641543212-24052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=641543212-24052001>We 
  need SMTP authentication, but that's yet another feature WorldMail 
doesn't 
  have now.&nbsp;&nbsp;We may never get it, or at least not before all 
  the&nbsp;attorneys put their grandkids through law 
  school...</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=641543212-24052001></SPAN></FONT><FONT size=2>--<BR>Dave 
Salovesh<BR>RAM 
  Associates, Inc.<BR>(800) 543-3635<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
  style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px 
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
    size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
    [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 23, 2001 
4:55 
    PM<BR><B>To:</B> Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of 
WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> 
    RE: aliases<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=143035120-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2>Unfortunately I cant use EIMS, no because i run Win2k 
    server.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=143035120-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=143035120-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2>Its okay. Its a dead issue now. I just wanted to see if any 
of you 
    guys had some hacked way of doing it. No big 
deal.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=143035120-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=143035120-23052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2>HOWEVER, do you guys know much about the Relay settings in 
Worldmail? 
    I want to restrict relaying as much as possible, but while also not 
having 
    to manage it everytime a client wants to pop in from a different 
computer on 
    a different network. Right now its wide open. And if anyone knows 
those ORBS 
    folks, Im a bit 
nervous!</FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML
>

------=_NextPart_000_025A_01C0E439.1F6C8B90--


From: "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
Subject: RE: aliases
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:05:58 -0400

Do you recommend any freeware for Windows that will do essentially the same
thing?


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Posluns [mailto:scripter at secureops dot com]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 9:40 AM
To: Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: Re: aliases


If one insists on using WorldMail for a mail store, one could theoretically
set up a mail relay with appropriate filters in front of it running
sendmail, or my favorite: postfix. These are free programs under unix, and
only require that one have a second computer to install them on. One could
also purchase a program like NAI WebShield SMTP, and install it on the same
server as WorldMail (put WebShield on port 25, and WorldMail on port 24 -
then use the Anti-Virus and Anti-Spam features of WebShield....

As a note, I use scripter at secureops dot com for receipt of mailing lists.. To
reply to me (and have me read it immediately - as opposed to every day or
two when I peruse mailng list messages) use jeff at secureops dot com

Regards all,

Jeffrey Posluns, CISA, CISSP, CCNP
Chief Technology Officer
SecureOps, Inc.
Tel: (514) 982-0678 x124
Fax: (514) 982-0362
http://www.secureops.com
PGP: 3206 DE8D 8C90 BAFE 571F
     B60A 4A8C E0FB C4D3 A922

On 5/24/01 9:07 AM, "Dave Salovesh" <salovesh at ramassociates dot com> wrote:

> Me too, but no such luck.  Either you need IP specs that exactly cover
your
> users and their varied habits, or you need to remain open to relaying and
hope
> against hope for the best.
>
> I tried the latter, and I pretty much got away with it for almost 6 months
> before I had to spend ALL my time whacking spam in the outgoing queue.  A
> month later, despite my efforts, one of my WorldMail IPs was on both MAPS
and
> ORBS and we also suffered a system break-in that turned into a bandwidth
> saturation DoS for a day or two.  No mail at all, no web hosting at all.
Not
> good at all.
>
> Since we don't offer dial-up services, it wasn't a big deal for us to shut
> down all relaying and have our clients use SMTP via their connectivity
> providers, but it does make us look somewhat like a small-time operation
> (okay, we ARE a small-time operation, but...).
>
> We need SMTP authentication, but that's yet another feature WorldMail
doesn't
> have now.  We may never get it, or at least not before all the attorneys
put
> their grandkids through law school...
>
> --
> Dave Salovesh
> RAM Associates, Inc.
> (800) 543-3635
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 4:55 PM
>> To: Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail
>> Subject: RE: aliases
>>
> Unfortunately I cant use EIMS, no because i run Win2k server.
>
> Its okay. Its a dead issue now. I just wanted to see if any of you guys
had
> some hacked way of doing it. No big deal.
>
> HOWEVER, do you guys know much about the Relay settings in Worldmail? I
want
> to restrict relaying as much as possible, but while also not having to
manage
> it everytime a client wants to pop in from a different computer on a
different
> network. Right now its wide open. And if anyone knows those ORBS folks, Im
a
> bit nervous!
>




Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:38:16 -0400
Subject: Re: aliases
From: Jeffrey Posluns <scripter at secureops dot com>

Offhand, I can't think of any Windows programs that would do what you
want...

The main reason I switched to unix based mail systems was the versatility.
It would take an experienced unix admin at most a few hours to set up a
Linux or OpenBSD based system running sendmail or postfix with appropriate
mods and filters. Then again, the cost for that guy would probably equal
that of buying the commercial software to run on a Windows platform.

I'm using the WebShield SMTP, and am very happy with it (except for a few
minor bugs). I have it situated between an external mail relay (OpenBSD
running postfix) and an internal mail server (POP and IMAP).

Jeff


On 5/24/01 10:05 AM, "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com> wrote:

> Do you recommend any freeware for Windows that will do essentially the same
> thing?
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeffrey Posluns [mailto:scripter at secureops dot com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 9:40 AM
> To: Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail
> Subject: Re: aliases
> 
> 
> If one insists on using WorldMail for a mail store, one could theoretically
> set up a mail relay with appropriate filters in front of it running
> sendmail, or my favorite: postfix. These are free programs under unix, and
> only require that one have a second computer to install them on. One could
> also purchase a program like NAI WebShield SMTP, and install it on the same
> server as WorldMail (put WebShield on port 25, and WorldMail on port 24 -
> then use the Anti-Virus and Anti-Spam features of WebShield....
> 
> As a note, I use scripter at secureops dot com for receipt of mailing lists.. To
> reply to me (and have me read it immediately - as opposed to every day or
> two when I peruse mailng list messages) use jeff at secureops dot com
> 
> Regards all,
> 
> Jeffrey Posluns, CISA, CISSP, CCNP
> Chief Technology Officer
> SecureOps, Inc.
> Tel: (514) 982-0678 x124
> Fax: (514) 982-0362
> http://www.secureops.com
> PGP: 3206 DE8D 8C90 BAFE 571F
>    B60A 4A8C E0FB C4D3 A922
> 
> On 5/24/01 9:07 AM, "Dave Salovesh" <salovesh at ramassociates dot com> wrote:
> 
>> Me too, but no such luck.  Either you need IP specs that exactly cover
> your
>> users and their varied habits, or you need to remain open to relaying and
> hope
>> against hope for the best.
>> 
>> I tried the latter, and I pretty much got away with it for almost 6 months
>> before I had to spend ALL my time whacking spam in the outgoing queue.  A
>> month later, despite my efforts, one of my WorldMail IPs was on both MAPS
> and
>> ORBS and we also suffered a system break-in that turned into a bandwidth
>> saturation DoS for a day or two.  No mail at all, no web hosting at all.
> Not
>> good at all.
>> 
>> Since we don't offer dial-up services, it wasn't a big deal for us to shut
>> down all relaying and have our clients use SMTP via their connectivity
>> providers, but it does make us look somewhat like a small-time operation
>> (okay, we ARE a small-time operation, but...).
>> 
>> We need SMTP authentication, but that's yet another feature WorldMail
> doesn't
>> have now.  We may never get it, or at least not before all the attorneys
> put
>> their grandkids through law school...
>> 
>> --
>> Dave Salovesh
>> RAM Associates, Inc.
>> (800) 543-3635
>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 4:55 PM
>>> To: Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail
>>> Subject: RE: aliases
>>> 
>> Unfortunately I cant use EIMS, no because i run Win2k server.
>> 
>> Its okay. Its a dead issue now. I just wanted to see if any of you guys
> had
>> some hacked way of doing it. No big deal.
>> 
>> HOWEVER, do you guys know much about the Relay settings in Worldmail? I
> want
>> to restrict relaying as much as possible, but while also not having to
> manage
>> it everytime a client wants to pop in from a different computer on a
> different
>> network. Right now its wide open. And if anyone knows those ORBS folks, Im
> a
>> bit nervous!


From: "Chris Lander" <chris at altuscorp dot com>
Subject: RE: aliases
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 09:10:56 -0700

My mail server also got placed on the MAPS list. Luckily, the majority of my
users are on a corporate LAN (away from the mail server) or use DSL with
static IP addresses. So it was a fairly easy task to get their IP addresses
and setup the server to only allowing relaying from those addresses. I do
have a few users that use dial-up with random IP addresses, but tough
cookies for them.

This is my biggest complaint about WorldMail. In the very near future I'll
be replacing my mail server, and I'm lobbying hard to get a UNIX box, or at
least upgrade to a different Windows-based mail server. (My other complaint
is the lousy Java applet for remote administration, but we don't need to go
into that).

+---------------------------------------------------------+
Chris Lander                   Altus Learning Systems, Inc.
chris at altuscorp dot com                          (408) 210-7409
+---------------------------------------------------------+
-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 07:06
To: Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


Wow! Thanks for that little story! I am caught between a rock and a hard
place now! I feel your pain, and I can relate to you small time operation.
Sounds like we are in the same line of biz.

So what have you done SINCE that DoS?  Have you turned on the relaying
configs?


-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Salovesh [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 9:07 AM
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


Me too, but no such luck.  Either you need IP specs that exactly cover your
users and their varied habits, or you need to remain open to relaying and
hope against hope for the best.

I tried the latter, and I pretty much got away with it for almost 6 months
before I had to spend ALL my time whacking spam in the outgoing queue.  A
month later, despite my efforts, one of my WorldMail IPs was on both MAPS
and ORBS and we also suffered a system break-in that turned into a bandwidth
saturation DoS for a day or two.  No mail at all, no web hosting at all.
Not good at all.

Since we don't offer dial-up services, it wasn't a big deal for us to shut
down all relaying and have our clients use SMTP via their connectivity
providers, but it does make us look somewhat like a small-time operation
(okay, we ARE a small-time operation, but...).

We need SMTP authentication, but that's yet another feature WorldMail
doesn't have now.  We may never get it, or at least not before all the
attorneys put their grandkids through law school...

--
Dave Salovesh
RAM Associates, Inc.
(800) 543-3635


-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 4:55 PM
To: Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


Unfortunately I cant use EIMS, no because i run Win2k server.

Its okay. Its a dead issue now. I just wanted to see if any of you guys had
some hacked way of doing it. No big deal.

HOWEVER, do you guys know much about the Relay settings in Worldmail? I want
to restrict relaying as much as possible, but while also not having to
manage it everytime a client wants to pop in from a different computer on a
different network. Right now its wide open. And if anyone knows those ORBS
folks, Im a bit nervous!


From: "Brian Augustine" <brian at meetingsplus dot com>
Subject: RE: aliases
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 09:16:13 -0700

We have remote users who dial in, and it is unacceptable for them to use
their providers SMTP server.. sooooo, we set up a VPN.  Win NT 4.0 Server
comes with PPTP, so getting it up and running is really simple.  Just have
to open up your firewall for GRE packets and whatever the TCP port number
is.

And damn, I need to come up with a cool sig.  You guys all sound so
important. :P

-Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Lander [mailto:chris at altuscorp dot com]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 9:11 AM
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


My mail server also got placed on the MAPS list. Luckily, the majority of my
users are on a corporate LAN (away from the mail server) or use DSL with
static IP addresses. So it was a fairly easy task to get their IP addresses
and setup the server to only allowing relaying from those addresses. I do
have a few users that use dial-up with random IP addresses, but tough
cookies for them.

This is my biggest complaint about WorldMail. In the very near future I'll
be replacing my mail server, and I'm lobbying hard to get a UNIX box, or at
least upgrade to a different Windows-based mail server. (My other complaint
is the lousy Java applet for remote administration, but we don't need to go
into that).

+---------------------------------------------------------+
Chris Lander                   Altus Learning Systems, Inc.
chris at altuscorp dot com                          (408) 210-7409
+---------------------------------------------------------+
-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 07:06
To: Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


Wow! Thanks for that little story! I am caught between a rock and a hard
place now! I feel your pain, and I can relate to you small time operation.
Sounds like we are in the same line of biz.

So what have you done SINCE that DoS?  Have you turned on the relaying
configs?


-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Salovesh [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 9:07 AM
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


Me too, but no such luck.  Either you need IP specs that exactly cover your
users and their varied habits, or you need to remain open to relaying and
hope against hope for the best.

I tried the latter, and I pretty much got away with it for almost 6 months
before I had to spend ALL my time whacking spam in the outgoing queue.  A
month later, despite my efforts, one of my WorldMail IPs was on both MAPS
and ORBS and we also suffered a system break-in that turned into a bandwidth
saturation DoS for a day or two.  No mail at all, no web hosting at all.
Not good at all.

Since we don't offer dial-up services, it wasn't a big deal for us to shut
down all relaying and have our clients use SMTP via their connectivity
providers, but it does make us look somewhat like a small-time operation
(okay, we ARE a small-time operation, but...).

We need SMTP authentication, but that's yet another feature WorldMail
doesn't have now.  We may never get it, or at least not before all the
attorneys put their grandkids through law school...

--
Dave Salovesh
RAM Associates, Inc.
(800) 543-3635


-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 4:55 PM
To: Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


Unfortunately I cant use EIMS, no because i run Win2k server.

Its okay. Its a dead issue now. I just wanted to see if any of you guys had
some hacked way of doing it. No big deal.

HOWEVER, do you guys know much about the Relay settings in Worldmail? I want
to restrict relaying as much as possible, but while also not having to
manage it everytime a client wants to pop in from a different computer on a
different network. Right now its wide open. And if anyone knows those ORBS
folks, Im a bit nervous!


From: "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
Subject: RE: aliases
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:30:09 -0400

We just like to SOUND that way though Brian! :)


-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Augustine [mailto:brian at meetingsplus dot com]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 12:16 PM
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


We have remote users who dial in, and it is unacceptable for them to use
their providers SMTP server.. sooooo, we set up a VPN.  Win NT 4.0 Server
comes with PPTP, so getting it up and running is really simple.  Just have
to open up your firewall for GRE packets and whatever the TCP port number
is.

And damn, I need to come up with a cool sig.  You guys all sound so
important. :P

-Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Lander [mailto:chris at altuscorp dot com]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 9:11 AM
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


My mail server also got placed on the MAPS list. Luckily, the majority of my
users are on a corporate LAN (away from the mail server) or use DSL with
static IP addresses. So it was a fairly easy task to get their IP addresses
and setup the server to only allowing relaying from those addresses. I do
have a few users that use dial-up with random IP addresses, but tough
cookies for them.

This is my biggest complaint about WorldMail. In the very near future I'll
be replacing my mail server, and I'm lobbying hard to get a UNIX box, or at
least upgrade to a different Windows-based mail server. (My other complaint
is the lousy Java applet for remote administration, but we don't need to go
into that).

+---------------------------------------------------------+
Chris Lander                   Altus Learning Systems, Inc.
chris at altuscorp dot com                          (408) 210-7409
+---------------------------------------------------------+
-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 07:06
To: Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


Wow! Thanks for that little story! I am caught between a rock and a hard
place now! I feel your pain, and I can relate to you small time operation.
Sounds like we are in the same line of biz.

So what have you done SINCE that DoS?  Have you turned on the relaying
configs?


-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Salovesh [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 9:07 AM
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


Me too, but no such luck.  Either you need IP specs that exactly cover your
users and their varied habits, or you need to remain open to relaying and
hope against hope for the best.

I tried the latter, and I pretty much got away with it for almost 6 months
before I had to spend ALL my time whacking spam in the outgoing queue.  A
month later, despite my efforts, one of my WorldMail IPs was on both MAPS
and ORBS and we also suffered a system break-in that turned into a bandwidth
saturation DoS for a day or two.  No mail at all, no web hosting at all.
Not good at all.

Since we don't offer dial-up services, it wasn't a big deal for us to shut
down all relaying and have our clients use SMTP via their connectivity
providers, but it does make us look somewhat like a small-time operation
(okay, we ARE a small-time operation, but...).

We need SMTP authentication, but that's yet another feature WorldMail
doesn't have now.  We may never get it, or at least not before all the
attorneys put their grandkids through law school...

--
Dave Salovesh
RAM Associates, Inc.
(800) 543-3635


-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 4:55 PM
To: Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


Unfortunately I cant use EIMS, no because i run Win2k server.

Its okay. Its a dead issue now. I just wanted to see if any of you guys had
some hacked way of doing it. No big deal.

HOWEVER, do you guys know much about the Relay settings in Worldmail? I want
to restrict relaying as much as possible, but while also not having to
manage it everytime a client wants to pop in from a different computer on a
different network. Right now its wide open. And if anyone knows those ORBS
folks, Im a bit nervous!


From: Dave Salovesh <salovesh at ramassociates dot com>
Subject: RE: aliases
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:49:48 -0400

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0E471.8DB273B6
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

The DoS was only circumstantially related, if at all - the route inside was
a well known Microsoft IIS bug, and the vulnerable server was the sole
machine I trusted my former supervisor to set up without my help.  It was
vulnerable without incident for 9 months, until the same general time as
when I saw a huge spike in spam relayed through us.  Coincidence?  Maybe,
maybe not.  Regardless, it has since been fixed, and the lessons have been
learned, more or less, I hope, and we're not blacklisted anywhere I know of.
 
My WorldMail relay config now DENYs all (except specified IPs).  None of my
clients have seen the value of getting static IPs (we're not only
small-time, we're cheap, and our clients tend to be pretty cheap as well) so
I've effectively turned off outbound SMTP from clients.  
 
That works for me, but is not generally a good way to do business.
 
I'm on this list because I need to support our current technologies, but I'm
looking for adequate replacements all around - WorldMail is a dead-end as
far as I'm concerned, and MS is bullying everyone out of the mature NT4
environment and into Windows2000 or newer by the end of the year.  As long
as I'll need to learn a new way of doing things, I'm considering
Linux/sendmail/postfix/... options, but my only Linux experience so far is
on our DNS servers (but that's still more time than I've spent with 2000
server).  My favorite option for Windows so far is CommuniGate Pro, but I'm
not in a phase where I can evaluate it well right now.

--
Dave Salovesh
RAM Associates, Inc.
(800) 543-3635



-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:06 AM
To: Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


Wow! Thanks for that little story! I am caught between a rock and a hard
place now! I feel your pain, and I can relate to you small time operation.
Sounds like we are in the same line of biz.
 
So what have you done SINCE that DoS?  Have you turned on the relaying
configs?


------_=_NextPart_001_01C0E471.8DB273B6
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">


<META content="MSHTML 5.00.3315.2869" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class–1574514-24052001>The 
DoS was only circumstantially related, if at all - the route inside was a well 
known Microsoft IIS bug, and the vulnerable server was the sole machine I 
trusted my former supervisor to set up without my help.&nbsp; It was vulnerable 
without incident for 9 months, until the same general time as when I saw a huge 
spike in spam relayed through us.&nbsp; Coincidence?&nbsp; Maybe, maybe 
not.&nbsp; Regardless, it has since been fixed, and the lessons have been 
learned, more or less, I hope, and we're not blacklisted anywhere I know 
of.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class–1574514-24052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class–1574514-24052001>My 
WorldMail relay config now DENYs all (except&nbsp;specified IPs).&nbsp; None of 
my clients have seen the value of getting static IPs (we're not only small-time, 
we're cheap, and our clients tend to be pretty cheap as well) so I've 
effectively turned off outbound SMTP from clients.&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class–1574514-24052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class–1574514-24052001>That 
works for me, but is not generally a good way to do 
business.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class–1574514-24052001>I'm on 
this list because I need to support our current technologies, but I'm looking 
for adequate replacements all around - WorldMail is&nbsp;a dead-end as far as 
I'm concerned, and MS is bullying everyone out of the mature NT4 environment and 
into Windows2000 or&nbsp;newer by the end of the year.&nbsp; As long as I'll 
need to learn a new way of doing things, I'm considering 
Linux/sendmail/postfix/... options, but my only Linux experience so far is on 
our DNS servers (but that's still more time than I've spent with 2000 
server).&nbsp; My favorite option for Windows so far is CommuniGate Pro, but I'm 
not in a phase where I can evaluate it well right now.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P><FONT size=2>--<BR>Dave Salovesh<BR>RAM Associates, Inc.<BR>(800) 
543-3635<BR><BR></FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
  [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:06 
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> 
  RE: aliases<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV><SPAN class=247120114-24052001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Tahoma 
  size=2>Wow! Thanks for that little story! I am caught between a rock and a 
  hard place now! I feel your pain, and I can relate to you small time 
  operation. Sounds like we are in the same line of biz.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=247120114-24052001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Tahoma 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=247120114-24052001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Tahoma size=2>So 
  what have you done SINCE that DoS?&nbsp; Have you turned on the relaying 
  configs?</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0E471.8DB273B6--

From: "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
Subject: RE: aliases
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 13:03:43 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0277_01C0E451.F5AEEE60
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

CommuniGate Pro is a terrific program. I built and configured a CGPro mail
system for one of my clients. Terrific application... BUT not very friendly
on the administration side. It was certainly built for Unix and not for
Win2k.. it just works for it.

So once I got acquainted, I fell in love. Its a bit more pricey than
Worldmail... thats why i opted for Worldmail. Im partially regretting that
now.

Either way, sounds like you got things pretty tight. I subscribe to the MS
security bullitens. They are very handy. Latest one is the Media Player
buffer bug. Thats a nerve wracking one! They suggest 7.1. Man... they
release more bugs than a swamp in florida!

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Dave Salovesh [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]
  Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 12:50 PM
  To: Subscribers of WorldMail
  Subject: RE: aliases


  The DoS was only circumstantially related, if at all - the route inside
was a well known Microsoft IIS bug, and the vulnerable server was the sole
machine I trusted my former supervisor to set up without my help.  It was
vulnerable without incident for 9 months, until the same general time as
when I saw a huge spike in spam relayed through us.  Coincidence?  Maybe,
maybe not.  Regardless, it has since been fixed, and the lessons have been
learned, more or less, I hope, and we're not blacklisted anywhere I know of.

  My WorldMail relay config now DENYs all (except specified IPs).  None of
my clients have seen the value of getting static IPs (we're not only
small-time, we're cheap, and our clients tend to be pretty cheap as well) so
I've effectively turned off outbound SMTP from clients.

  That works for me, but is not generally a good way to do business.

  I'm on this list because I need to support our current technologies, but
I'm looking for adequate replacements all around - WorldMail is a dead-end
as far as I'm concerned, and MS is bullying everyone out of the mature NT4
environment and into Windows2000 or newer by the end of the year.  As long
as I'll need to learn a new way of doing things, I'm considering
Linux/sendmail/postfix/... options, but my only Linux experience so far is
on our DNS servers (but that's still more time than I've spent with 2000
server).  My favorite option for Windows so far is CommuniGate Pro, but I'm
not in a phase where I can evaluate it well right now.
  --
  Dave Salovesh
  RAM Associates, Inc.
  (800) 543-3635



    -----Original Message-----
    From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
    Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:06 AM
    To: Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail
    Subject: RE: aliases


    Wow! Thanks for that little story! I am caught between a rock and a hard
place now! I feel your pain, and I can relate to you small time operation.
Sounds like we are in the same line of biz.

    So what have you done SINCE that DoS?  Have you turned on the relaying
configs?

------=_NextPart_000_0277_01C0E451.F5AEEE60
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; 
charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4613.1700" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
size=2>CommuniGate Pro is a terrific program. I built and configured a 
CGPro 
mail system for one of my clients. Terrific application... BUT not very 
friendly 
on the administration side. It was certainly built for Unix and not for 
Win2k.. 
it just works for it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff size=2>So 
once I got acquainted, I fell in love. Its a bit more pricey than 
Worldmail... 
thats why i opted for Worldmail. Im partially regretting that 
now.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
size=2>Either way, sounds like you got things pretty tight. I 
subscribe to the 
MS security bullitens. They are very handy. Latest one is the Media 
Player 
buffer bug. Thats a nerve wracking one! They suggest 7.1. Man... they 
release 
more bugs than a swamp in florida!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Dave Salovesh 
  [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 24, 
2001 
  12:50 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Subscribers of WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: 

  aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class–1574514-24052001>The 
  DoS was only circumstantially related, if at all - the route inside 
was a well 
  known Microsoft IIS bug, and the vulnerable server was the sole 
machine I 
  trusted my former supervisor to set up without my help.&nbsp; It was 
  vulnerable without incident for 9 months, until the same general time 
as when 
  I saw a huge spike in spam relayed through us.&nbsp; 
Coincidence?&nbsp; Maybe, 
  maybe not.&nbsp; Regardless, it has since been fixed, and the lessons 
have 
  been learned, more or less, I hope, and we're not blacklisted anywhere 
I know 
  of.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class–1574514-24052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class–1574514-24052001>My 
  WorldMail relay config now DENYs all (except&nbsp;specified 
IPs).&nbsp; None 
  of my clients have seen the value of getting static IPs (we're not 
only 
  small-time, we're cheap, and our clients tend to be pretty cheap as 
well) so 
  I've effectively turned off outbound SMTP from clients.&nbsp; 
  </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class–1574514-24052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class–1574514-24052001>That 
  works for me, but is not generally a good way to do 
  business.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class–1574514-24052001>I'm 
  on this list because I need to support our current technologies, but 
I'm 
  looking for adequate replacements all around - WorldMail is&nbsp;a 
dead-end as 
  far as I'm concerned, and MS is bullying everyone out of the mature 
NT4 
  environment and into Windows2000 or&nbsp;newer by the end of the 
year.&nbsp; 
  As long as I'll need to learn a new way of doing things, I'm 
considering 
  Linux/sendmail/postfix/... options, but my only Linux experience so 
far is on 
  our DNS servers (but that's still more time than I've spent with 2000 
  server).&nbsp; My favorite option for Windows so far is CommuniGate 
Pro, but 
  I'm not in a phase where I can evaluate it well right 
now.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <P><FONT size=2>--<BR>Dave Salovesh<BR>RAM Associates, Inc.<BR>(800) 

  543-3635<BR><BR></FONT></P>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
  style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px 
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
    size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
    [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 24, 2001 
10:06 
    AM<BR><B>To:</B> Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of 
WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> 
    RE: aliases<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <DIV><SPAN class=247120114-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2>Wow! Thanks for that little story! I am caught between a 
rock and a 
    hard place now! I feel your pain, and I can relate to you small time 

    operation. Sounds like we are in the same line of 
biz.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=247120114-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=247120114-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2>So what have you done SINCE that DoS?&nbsp; Have you turned 
on the 
    relaying 
configs?</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0277_01C0E451.F5AEEE60--


From: "Paul Webster" <paul at spidersweb.freeserve.co dot uk>
Subject: RE: aliases
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:41:19 +0100

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C0E4FE.DAB11B80
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

If you liked they way that WorldMail worked - but want some more modern
features - then my suggestion is that you try to persuade CP (old ISOCOR
part) to give you an evaluation copy of IMS (formerly N-PLEX). WorldMail is
basically N-PLEX Office [V1.2 I think] ... and IMS is N-PLEX V5.5 [with V6
due soon]
It is fully supported on Windows NT4 and Windows 2000 [and AIX, Solaris,
SGI].
It will look very familiar to you - but has stacks of features added over
the 3 or so years since the Qualcomm version.
I suspect that a problem that you will have is getting an eval copy - since
it is aimed as ISPs and huge corporates ... but it really works fine in
small installations.

CP has clearly been going through a hard time recently - but the underlying
software (particularly the "insource" mail server) remains as good as ever.

If people are interested - I expect I could find list of the feature add-ons
from the post1.x release notes.
Maybe Qualcomm will one day take on the new version or even find an
alternative supplier for similar technology.

Paul [ex ISOCOR/CP]
-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
Sent: 24 May 2001 18:04
To: Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


CommuniGate Pro is a terrific program. I built and configured a CGPro mail
system for one of my clients. Terrific application... BUT not very friendly
on the administration side. It was certainly built for Unix and not for
Win2k.. it just works for it.

So once I got acquainted, I fell in love. Its a bit more pricey than
Worldmail... thats why i opted for Worldmail. Im partially regretting that
now.

Either way, sounds like you got things pretty tight. I subscribe to the MS
security bullitens. They are very handy. Latest one is the Media Player
buffer bug. Thats a nerve wracking one! They suggest 7.1. Man... they
release more bugs than a swamp in florida!

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Dave Salovesh [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]
  Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 12:50 PM
  To: Subscribers of WorldMail
  Subject: RE: aliases


  The DoS was only circumstantially related, if at all - the route inside
was a well known Microsoft IIS bug, and the vulnerable server was the sole
machine I trusted my former supervisor to set up without my help.  It was
vulnerable without incident for 9 months, until the same general time as
when I saw a huge spike in spam relayed through us.  Coincidence?  Maybe,
maybe not.  Regardless, it has since been fixed, and the lessons have been
learned, more or less, I hope, and we're not blacklisted anywhere I know of.

  My WorldMail relay config now DENYs all (except specified IPs).  None of
my clients have seen the value of getting static IPs (we're not only
small-time, we're cheap, and our clients tend to be pretty cheap as well) so
I've effectively turned off outbound SMTP from clients.

  That works for me, but is not generally a good way to do business.

  I'm on this list because I need to support our current technologies, but
I'm looking for adequate replacements all around - WorldMail is a dead-end
as far as I'm concerned, and MS is bullying everyone out of the mature NT4
environment and into Windows2000 or newer by the end of the year.  As long
as I'll need to learn a new way of doing things, I'm considering
Linux/sendmail/postfix/... options, but my only Linux experience so far is
on our DNS servers (but that's still more time than I've spent with 2000
server).  My favorite option for Windows so far is CommuniGate Pro, but I'm
not in a phase where I can evaluate it well right now.
  --
  Dave Salovesh
  RAM Associates, Inc.
  (800) 543-3635



    -----Original Message-----
    From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
    Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:06 AM
    To: Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail
    Subject: RE: aliases


    Wow! Thanks for that little story! I am caught between a rock and a hard
place now! I feel your pain, and I can relate to you small time operation.
Sounds like we are in the same line of biz.

    So what have you done SINCE that DoS?  Have you turned on the relaying
configs?

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C0E4FE.DAB11B80
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; 
charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>If you 
liked they way that WorldMail worked - but want some more modern 
features - then 
my suggestion is that you try to persuade CP (old ISOCOR part) to give 
you an 
evaluation copy of IMS (formerly N-PLEX). WorldMail is basically N-PLEX 
Office 
[V1.2 I think]&nbsp;... and IMS is N-PLEX V5.5 [with V6 due 
soon]</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>It is 
fully supported on Windows NT4 and Windows 2000 [and AIX, Solaris, 
SGI].</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>It 
will look very familiar to you - but has stacks of features added over 
the 3 or 
so years since the Qualcomm version.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>I 
suspect that a problem that you will have is getting an eval copy - 
since it is 
aimed as ISPs and huge corporates ... but it really works fine in small 
installations.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>CP has 
clearly been going through a hard time recently&nbsp;- but the 
underlying 
software (particularly the "insource" mail server) remains as good as 
ever.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>If 
people are interested - I expect I could find list of the feature 
add-ons from 
the post1.x release notes.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>Maybe 
Qualcomm will one day take on the new version or even find an 
alternative 
supplier for similar technology.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff 
size=2><SPAN class=468142408-25052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>Paul 
[ex ISOCOR/CP]</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
[mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> 24 May 2001 
18:04<BR><B>To:</B> Dave 
Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: 
aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
size=2>CommuniGate Pro is a terrific program. I built and configured a 
CGPro 
mail system for one of my clients. Terrific application... BUT not very 
friendly 
on the administration side. It was certainly built for Unix and not for 
Win2k.. 
it just works for it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff size=2>So 
once I got acquainted, I fell in love. Its a bit more pricey than 
Worldmail... 
thats why i opted for Worldmail. Im partially regretting that 
now.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
size=2>Either way, sounds like you got things pretty tight. I 
subscribe to the 
MS security bullitens. They are very handy. Latest one is the Media 
Player 
buffer bug. Thats a nerve wracking one! They suggest 7.1. Man... they 
release 
more bugs than a swamp in florida!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Dave Salovesh 
  [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 24, 
2001 
  12:50 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Subscribers of WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: 

  aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class–1574514-24052001>The 
  DoS was only circumstantially related, if at all - the route inside 
was a well 
  known Microsoft IIS bug, and the vulnerable server was the sole 
machine I 
  trusted my former supervisor to set up without my help.&nbsp; It was 
  vulnerable without incident for 9 months, until the same general time 
as when 
  I saw a huge spike in spam relayed through us.&nbsp; 
Coincidence?&nbsp; Maybe, 
  maybe not.&nbsp; Regardless, it has since been fixed, and the lessons 
have 
  been learned, more or less, I hope, and we're not blacklisted anywhere 
I know 
  of.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class–1574514-24052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class–1574514-24052001>My 
  WorldMail relay config now DENYs all (except&nbsp;specified 
IPs).&nbsp; None 
  of my clients have seen the value of getting static IPs (we're not 
only 
  small-time, we're cheap, and our clients tend to be pretty cheap as 
well) so 
  I've effectively turned off outbound SMTP from clients.&nbsp; 
  </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class–1574514-24052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class–1574514-24052001>That 
  works for me, but is not generally a good way to do 
  business.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class–1574514-24052001>I'm 
  on this list because I need to support our current technologies, but 
I'm 
  looking for adequate replacements all around - WorldMail is&nbsp;a 
dead-end as 
  far as I'm concerned, and MS is bullying everyone out of the mature 
NT4 
  environment and into Windows2000 or&nbsp;newer by the end of the 
year.&nbsp; 
  As long as I'll need to learn a new way of doing things, I'm 
considering 
  Linux/sendmail/postfix/... options, but my only Linux experience so 
far is on 
  our DNS servers (but that's still more time than I've spent with 2000 
  server).&nbsp; My favorite option for Windows so far is CommuniGate 
Pro, but 
  I'm not in a phase where I can evaluate it well right 
now.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <P><FONT size=2>--<BR>Dave Salovesh<BR>RAM Associates, Inc.<BR>(800) 

  543-3635<BR><BR></FONT></P>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
  style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px 
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
    size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
    [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 24, 2001 
10:06 
    AM<BR><B>To:</B> Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of 
WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> 
    RE: aliases<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <DIV><SPAN class=247120114-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2>Wow! Thanks for that little story! I am caught between a 
rock and a 
    hard place now! I feel your pain, and I can relate to you small time 

    operation. Sounds like we are in the same line of 
biz.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=247120114-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=247120114-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2>So what have you done SINCE that DoS?&nbsp; Have you turned 
on the 
    relaying 
configs?</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C0E4FE.DAB11B80--


From: "Peter Martin" <p.martin at ies.uk dot com>
Subject: Re: aliases
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 15:52:45 +0100

--------------InterScan_NT_MIME_Boundary
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

You don't have a copy of the ISOCOR toolkit do you?  I've been looking 
for this for a while but can't find anyone who has a copy, I understand 
from local myth that this give you the ability to build blacklists and 
anti relay code etc.

Peter
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Paul Webster 
  To: Subscribers of WorldMail 
  Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 9:41 AM
  Subject: RE: aliases


  If you liked they way that WorldMail worked - but want some more 
modern features - then my suggestion is that you try to persuade CP (old 
ISOCOR part) to give you an evaluation copy of IMS (formerly N-PLEX). 
WorldMail is basically N-PLEX Office [V1.2 I think] ... and IMS is 
N-PLEX V5.5 [with V6 due soon]
  It is fully supported on Windows NT4 and Windows 2000 [and AIX, 
Solaris, SGI].
  It will look very familiar to you - but has stacks of features added 
over the 3 or so years since the Qualcomm version.
  I suspect that a problem that you will have is getting an eval copy - 
since it is aimed as ISPs and huge corporates ... but it really works 
fine in small installations.

  CP has clearly been going through a hard time recently - but the 
underlying software (particularly the "insource" mail server) remains as 
good as ever.

  If people are interested - I expect I could find list of the feature 
add-ons from the post1.x release notes.
  Maybe Qualcomm will one day take on the new version or even find an 
alternative supplier for similar technology.

  Paul [ex ISOCOR/CP]
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
  Sent: 24 May 2001 18:04
  To: Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail
  Subject: RE: aliases


  CommuniGate Pro is a terrific program. I built and configured a CGPro 
mail system for one of my clients. Terrific application... BUT not very 
friendly on the administration side. It was certainly built for Unix and 
not for Win2k.. it just works for it.

  So once I got acquainted, I fell in love. Its a bit more pricey than 
Worldmail... thats why i opted for Worldmail. Im partially regretting 
that now.

  Either way, sounds like you got things pretty tight. I subscribe to 
the MS security bullitens. They are very handy. Latest one is the Media 
Player buffer bug. Thats a nerve wracking one! They suggest 7.1. Man... 
they release more bugs than a swamp in florida!

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Dave Salovesh [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]
    Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 12:50 PM
    To: Subscribers of WorldMail
    Subject: RE: aliases


    The DoS was only circumstantially related, if at all - the route 
inside was a well known Microsoft IIS bug, and the vulnerable server was 
the sole machine I trusted my former supervisor to set up without my 
help.  It was vulnerable without incident for 9 months, until the same 
general time as when I saw a huge spike in spam relayed through us.  
Coincidence?  Maybe, maybe not.  Regardless, it has since been fixed, 
and the lessons have been learned, more or less, I hope, and we're not 
blacklisted anywhere I know of.

    My WorldMail relay config now DENYs all (except specified IPs).  
None of my clients have seen the value of getting static IPs (we're not 
only small-time, we're cheap, and our clients tend to be pretty cheap as 
well) so I've effectively turned off outbound SMTP from clients.  

    That works for me, but is not generally a good way to do business.

    I'm on this list because I need to support our current technologies, 
but I'm looking for adequate replacements all around - WorldMail is a 
dead-end as far as I'm concerned, and MS is bullying everyone out of the 
mature NT4 environment and into Windows2000 or newer by the end of the 
year.  As long as I'll need to learn a new way of doing things, I'm 
considering Linux/sendmail/postfix/... options, but my only Linux 
experience so far is on our DNS servers (but that's still more time than 
I've spent with 2000 server).  My favorite option for Windows so far is 
CommuniGate Pro, but I'm not in a phase where I can evaluate it well 
right now.
    --
    Dave Salovesh
    RAM Associates, Inc.
    (800) 543-3635



      -----Original Message-----
      From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
      Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:06 AM
      To: Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail
      Subject: RE: aliases


      Wow! Thanks for that little story! I am caught between a rock and 
a hard place now! I feel your pain, and I can relate to you small time 
operation. Sounds like we are in the same line of biz.

      So what have you done SINCE that DoS?  Have you turned on the 
relaying configs?

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; 
charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You don't have a copy of the ISOCOR 
toolkit do 
you?&nbsp; I've been looking for this for a while but can't find anyone 
who has 
a copy, I understand from local myth that this give you the ability to 
build 
blacklists and anti relay code etc.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Peter</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; 
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV 
  style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: 
black"><B>From:</B> 
  <A title=paul at spidersweb.freeserve.co dot uk 
  href="mailto:paul at spidersweb.freeserve dot co dot uk">Paul Webster</A> 
</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A 
title=worldmail at lists.pensive dot org 
  href="mailto:worldmail at lists dot pensive dot org">Subscribers of 
WorldMail</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 25, 2001 9:41 
AM</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: aliases</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>If 
  you liked they way that WorldMail worked - but want some more modern 
features 
  - then my suggestion is that you try to persuade CP (old ISOCOR part) 
to give 
  you an evaluation copy of IMS (formerly N-PLEX). WorldMail is 
basically N-PLEX 
  Office [V1.2 I think]&nbsp;... and IMS is N-PLEX V5.5 [with V6 due 
  soon]</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>It 
  is fully supported on Windows NT4 and Windows 2000 [and AIX, Solaris, 
  SGI].</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>It 
  will look very familiar to you - but has stacks of features added over 
the 3 
  or so years since the Qualcomm version.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>I 
  suspect that a problem that you will have is getting an eval copy - 
since it 
  is aimed as ISPs and huge corporates ... but it really works fine in 
small 
  installations.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=468142408-25052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>CP 
  has clearly been going through a hard time recently&nbsp;- but the 
underlying 
  software (particularly the "insource" mail server) remains as good as 
  ever.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=468142408-25052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>If 
  people are interested - I expect I could find list of the feature 
add-ons from 
  the post1.x release notes.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=468142408-25052001>Maybe Qualcomm will one day take on the new 
version 
  or even find an alternative supplier for similar 
  technology.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=468142408-25052001></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff 
  size=2><SPAN class=468142408-25052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>Paul 
  [ex ISOCOR/CP]</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
  [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> 24 May 2001 
18:04<BR><B>To:</B> 
  Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: 
  aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
  size=2>CommuniGate Pro is a terrific program. I built and configured 
a CGPro 
  mail system for one of my clients. Terrific application... BUT not 
very 
  friendly on the administration side. It was certainly built for Unix 
and not 
  for Win2k.. it just works for it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff size=2>So 
  once I got acquainted, I fell in love. Its a bit more pricey than 
Worldmail... 
  thats why i opted for Worldmail. Im partially regretting that 
  now.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
  size=2>Either way, sounds like you got things pretty tight. I 
subscribe to the 
  MS security bullitens. They are very handy. Latest one is the Media 
Player 
  buffer bug. Thats a nerve wracking one! They suggest 7.1. Man... they 
release 
  more bugs than a swamp in florida!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
    size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Dave Salovesh 
    [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 
24, 2001 
    12:50 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Subscribers of WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> 
RE: 
    aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class–1574514-24052001>The DoS was only circumstantially 
related, if at 
    all - the route inside was a well known Microsoft IIS bug, and the 
    vulnerable server was the sole machine I trusted my former 
supervisor to set 
    up without my help.&nbsp; It was vulnerable without incident for 9 
months, 
    until the same general time as when I saw a huge spike in spam 
relayed 
    through us.&nbsp; Coincidence?&nbsp; Maybe, maybe not.&nbsp; 
Regardless, it 
    has since been fixed, and the lessons have been learned, more or 
less, I 
    hope, and we're not blacklisted anywhere I know 
of.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class–1574514-24052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class–1574514-24052001>My 
    WorldMail relay config now DENYs all (except&nbsp;specified 
IPs).&nbsp; None 
    of my clients have seen the value of getting static IPs (we're not 
only 
    small-time, we're cheap, and our clients tend to be pretty cheap as 
well) so 
    I've effectively turned off outbound SMTP from clients.&nbsp; 
    </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class–1574514-24052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class–1574514-24052001>That works for me, but is not generally a 
good way 
    to do business.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class–1574514-24052001>I'm on this list because I need to 
support our 
    current technologies, but I'm looking for adequate replacements all 
around - 
    WorldMail is&nbsp;a dead-end as far as I'm concerned, and MS is 
bullying 
    everyone out of the mature NT4 environment and into Windows2000 
    or&nbsp;newer by the end of the year.&nbsp; As long as I'll need to 
learn a 
    new way of doing things, I'm considering Linux/sendmail/postfix/... 
options, 
    but my only Linux experience so far is on our DNS servers (but 
that's still 
    more time than I've spent with 2000 server).&nbsp; My favorite 
option for 
    Windows so far is CommuniGate Pro, but I'm not in a phase where I 
can 
    evaluate it well right now.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <P><FONT size=2>--<BR>Dave Salovesh<BR>RAM Associates, 
Inc.<BR>(800) 
    543-3635<BR><BR></FONT></P>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
    style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 
2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
      size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
      [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 24, 2001 
10:06 
      AM<BR><B>To:</B> Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of 
      WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: aliases<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
      <DIV><SPAN class=247120114-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
      size=2>Wow! Thanks for that little story! I am caught between a 
rock and a 
      hard place now! I feel your pain, and I can relate to you small 
time 
      operation. Sounds like we are in the same line of 
biz.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=247120114-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
      size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=247120114-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
      size=2>So what have you done SINCE that DoS?&nbsp; Have you 
turned on the 
      relaying 
configs?</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY
></HTML>

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--------------InterScan_NT_MIME_Boundary--

From: "Paul Webster" <paul at spidersweb.freeserve.co dot uk>
Subject: RE: aliases
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 19:55:28 +0100

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Bad news first - I don't have API from back then.
But ... I guess that with the IMSFA (Security Filter API) you could do this
... since you could get every message that comes in before it is
relayed/delivered.  Then you could analyse the message and check headers to
see where it claims to be from.  There is a possibility that IMSFA interface
hasn't changed ... and current IMS SDK will do it for you ... but download
from CP support site requires userid/password.

I think that setting up blacklists might be possible anyway ... can't
remember precisely ... but is it present in the Management GUI under Reject
From.
If so - then everything that can be set by the GUI can readily be set by
other means - and all management commands documented with the software and
visible using ISOTRACE.

IMS includes a number of features out-of-the-box that make all of this much
easier
e.g.:
Enabling POP before SMTP before relay
Enabling SMTP Authentication before relay
RBL/MAPS/ORBS lookup

Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Martin [mailto:p.martin at ies.uk dot com]
Sent: 25 May 2001 15:53
To: Paul Webster; Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: Re: aliases


You don't have a copy of the ISOCOR toolkit do you?  I've been looking for
this for a while but can't find anyone who has a copy, I understand from
local myth that this give you the ability to build blacklists and anti relay
code etc.

Peter
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Paul Webster
  To: Subscribers of WorldMail
  Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 9:41 AM
  Subject: RE: aliases


  If you liked they way that WorldMail worked - but want some more modern
features - then my suggestion is that you try to persuade CP (old ISOCOR
part) to give you an evaluation copy of IMS (formerly N-PLEX). WorldMail is
basically N-PLEX Office [V1.2 I think] ... and IMS is N-PLEX V5.5 [with V6
due soon]
  It is fully supported on Windows NT4 and Windows 2000 [and AIX, Solaris,
SGI].
  It will look very familiar to you - but has stacks of features added over
the 3 or so years since the Qualcomm version.
  I suspect that a problem that you will have is getting an eval copy -
since it is aimed as ISPs and huge corporates ... but it really works fine
in small installations.

  CP has clearly been going through a hard time recently - but the
underlying software (particularly the "insource" mail server) remains as
good as ever.

  If people are interested - I expect I could find list of the feature
add-ons from the post1.x release notes.
  Maybe Qualcomm will one day take on the new version or even find an
alternative supplier for similar technology.

  Paul [ex ISOCOR/CP]
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
  Sent: 24 May 2001 18:04
  To: Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail
  Subject: RE: aliases


  CommuniGate Pro is a terrific program. I built and configured a CGPro mail
system for one of my clients. Terrific application... BUT not very friendly
on the administration side. It was certainly built for Unix and not for
Win2k.. it just works for it.

  So once I got acquainted, I fell in love. Its a bit more pricey than
Worldmail... thats why i opted for Worldmail. Im partially regretting that
now.

  Either way, sounds like you got things pretty tight. I subscribe to the MS
security bullitens. They are very handy. Latest one is the Media Player
buffer bug. Thats a nerve wracking one! They suggest 7.1. Man... they
release more bugs than a swamp in florida!

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Dave Salovesh [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]
    Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 12:50 PM
    To: Subscribers of WorldMail
    Subject: RE: aliases


    The DoS was only circumstantially related, if at all - the route inside
was a well known Microsoft IIS bug, and the vulnerable server was the sole
machine I trusted my former supervisor to set up without my help.  It was
vulnerable without incident for 9 months, until the same general time as
when I saw a huge spike in spam relayed through us.  Coincidence?  Maybe,
maybe not.  Regardless, it has since been fixed, and the lessons have been
learned, more or less, I hope, and we're not blacklisted anywhere I know of.

    My WorldMail relay config now DENYs all (except specified IPs).  None of
my clients have seen the value of getting static IPs (we're not only
small-time, we're cheap, and our clients tend to be pretty cheap as well) so
I've effectively turned off outbound SMTP from clients.

    That works for me, but is not generally a good way to do business.

    I'm on this list because I need to support our current technologies, but
I'm looking for adequate replacements all around - WorldMail is a dead-end
as far as I'm concerned, and MS is bullying everyone out of the mature NT4
environment and into Windows2000 or newer by the end of the year.  As long
as I'll need to learn a new way of doing things, I'm considering
Linux/sendmail/postfix/... options, but my only Linux experience so far is
on our DNS servers (but that's still more time than I've spent with 2000
server).  My favorite option for Windows so far is CommuniGate Pro, but I'm
not in a phase where I can evaluate it well right now.
    --
    Dave Salovesh
    RAM Associates, Inc.
    (800) 543-3635



      -----Original Message-----
      From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
      Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:06 AM
      To: Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail
      Subject: RE: aliases


      Wow! Thanks for that little story! I am caught between a rock and a
hard place now! I feel your pain, and I can relate to you small time
operation. Sounds like we are in the same line of biz.

      So what have you done SINCE that DoS?  Have you turned on the relaying
configs?

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; 
charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=198004618-25052001>Bad 
news first - I don't have API from back then.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=198004618-25052001>But 
... I guess that with the IMSFA (Security Filter API) you could do this 
... 
since you could get every message that comes in before it is 
relayed/delivered.&nbsp; Then you could analyse the message and check 
headers to 
see where it claims to be from.&nbsp; There is a possibility that IMSFA 
interface hasn't changed ... and current IMS SDK will do it for you ... 
but 
download from CP support site requires 
userid/password.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=198004618-25052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=198004618-25052001>I 
think that setting up blacklists might be possible anyway ... can't 
remember 
precisely ... but is it present in the Management GUI under Reject 
From.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=198004618-25052001>If so 
- then everything that can be set by the GUI can readily be set by other 
means - 
and all management commands documented with the software and visible 
using 
ISOTRACE.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=198004618-25052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=198004618-25052001>IMS 
includes a number of features out-of-the-box that make all of this much 
easier</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=198004618-25052001>e.g.:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=198004618-25052001>Enabling POP before SMTP before 
relay</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=198004618-25052001>Enabling SMTP Authentication before 
relay</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=198004618-25052001>RBL/MAPS/ORBS lookup</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=198004618-25052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=198004618-25052001>Paul</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Peter Martin 
[mailto:p.martin at ies.uk dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> 25 May 2001 
15:53<BR><B>To:</B> 
Paul Webster; Subscribers of WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: 
aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You don't have a copy of the ISOCOR 
toolkit do 
you?&nbsp; I've been looking for this for a while but can't find anyone 
who has 
a copy, I understand from local myth that this give you the ability to 
build 
blacklists and anti relay code etc.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Peter</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; 
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV 
  style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: 
black"><B>From:</B> 
  <A title=paul at spidersweb.freeserve.co dot uk 
  href="mailto:paul at spidersweb.freeserve dot co dot uk">Paul Webster</A> 
</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A 
title=worldmail at lists.pensive dot org 
  href="mailto:worldmail at lists dot pensive dot org">Subscribers of 
WorldMail</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 25, 2001 9:41 
AM</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: aliases</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>If 
  you liked they way that WorldMail worked - but want some more modern 
features 
  - then my suggestion is that you try to persuade CP (old ISOCOR part) 
to give 
  you an evaluation copy of IMS (formerly N-PLEX). WorldMail is 
basically N-PLEX 
  Office [V1.2 I think]&nbsp;... and IMS is N-PLEX V5.5 [with V6 due 
  soon]</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>It 
  is fully supported on Windows NT4 and Windows 2000 [and AIX, Solaris, 
  SGI].</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>It 
  will look very familiar to you - but has stacks of features added over 
the 3 
  or so years since the Qualcomm version.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>I 
  suspect that a problem that you will have is getting an eval copy - 
since it 
  is aimed as ISPs and huge corporates ... but it really works fine in 
small 
  installations.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=468142408-25052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>CP 
  has clearly been going through a hard time recently&nbsp;- but the 
underlying 
  software (particularly the "insource" mail server) remains as good as 
  ever.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=468142408-25052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>If 
  people are interested - I expect I could find list of the feature 
add-ons from 
  the post1.x release notes.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=468142408-25052001>Maybe Qualcomm will one day take on the new 
version 
  or even find an alternative supplier for similar 
  technology.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=468142408-25052001></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff 
  size=2><SPAN class=468142408-25052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>Paul 
  [ex ISOCOR/CP]</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
  [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> 24 May 2001 
18:04<BR><B>To:</B> 
  Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: 
  aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
  size=2>CommuniGate Pro is a terrific program. I built and configured 
a CGPro 
  mail system for one of my clients. Terrific application... BUT not 
very 
  friendly on the administration side. It was certainly built for Unix 
and not 
  for Win2k.. it just works for it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff size=2>So 
  once I got acquainted, I fell in love. Its a bit more pricey than 
Worldmail... 
  thats why i opted for Worldmail. Im partially regretting that 
  now.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
  size=2>Either way, sounds like you got things pretty tight. I 
subscribe to the 
  MS security bullitens. They are very handy. Latest one is the Media 
Player 
  buffer bug. Thats a nerve wracking one! They suggest 7.1. Man... they 
release 
  more bugs than a swamp in florida!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
    size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Dave Salovesh 
    [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 
24, 2001 
    12:50 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Subscribers of WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> 
RE: 
    aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class–1574514-24052001>The DoS was only circumstantially 
related, if at 
    all - the route inside was a well known Microsoft IIS bug, and the 
    vulnerable server was the sole machine I trusted my former 
supervisor to set 
    up without my help.&nbsp; It was vulnerable without incident for 9 
months, 
    until the same general time as when I saw a huge spike in spam 
relayed 
    through us.&nbsp; Coincidence?&nbsp; Maybe, maybe not.&nbsp; 
Regardless, it 
    has since been fixed, and the lessons have been learned, more or 
less, I 
    hope, and we're not blacklisted anywhere I know 
of.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class–1574514-24052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class–1574514-24052001>My 
    WorldMail relay config now DENYs all (except&nbsp;specified 
IPs).&nbsp; None 
    of my clients have seen the value of getting static IPs (we're not 
only 
    small-time, we're cheap, and our clients tend to be pretty cheap as 
well) so 
    I've effectively turned off outbound SMTP from clients.&nbsp; 
    </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class–1574514-24052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class–1574514-24052001>That works for me, but is not generally a 
good way 
    to do business.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class–1574514-24052001>I'm on this list because I need to 
support our 
    current technologies, but I'm looking for adequate replacements all 
around - 
    WorldMail is&nbsp;a dead-end as far as I'm concerned, and MS is 
bullying 
    everyone out of the mature NT4 environment and into Windows2000 
    or&nbsp;newer by the end of the year.&nbsp; As long as I'll need to 
learn a 
    new way of doing things, I'm considering Linux/sendmail/postfix/... 
options, 
    but my only Linux experience so far is on our DNS servers (but 
that's still 
    more time than I've spent with 2000 server).&nbsp; My favorite 
option for 
    Windows so far is CommuniGate Pro, but I'm not in a phase where I 
can 
    evaluate it well right now.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <P><FONT size=2>--<BR>Dave Salovesh<BR>RAM Associates, 
Inc.<BR>(800) 
    543-3635<BR><BR></FONT></P>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
    style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 
2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
      size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
      [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 24, 2001 
10:06 
      AM<BR><B>To:</B> Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of 
      WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: aliases<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
      <DIV><SPAN class=247120114-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
      size=2>Wow! Thanks for that little story! I am caught between a 
rock and a 
      hard place now! I feel your pain, and I can relate to you small 
time 
      operation. Sounds like we are in the same line of 
biz.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=247120114-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
      size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=247120114-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
      size=2>So what have you done SINCE that DoS?&nbsp; Have you 
turned on the 
      relaying 
configs?</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY
></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C0E554.A9D165A0--


From: "Paul Webster" <paul at spidersweb.freeserve.co dot uk>
Subject: RE: aliases
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 19:50:47 +0100

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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That is the majority of it - but missing the .h files [e.g. macros.h,
imsfa.h, debug.h]
Then with those plus the sample code at the end .... a 'C' programmer should
be able to get going pretty quickly.

Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Anderson [mailto:doug at douglasanderson dot net]
Sent: 30 May 2001 04:14
To: Peter Martin; Paul Webster; Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: aliases


ISOCOR Toolkit
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Peter Martin [mailto:p.martin at ies.uk dot com]
  Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 9:53 AM
  To: Paul Webster; Subscribers of WorldMail
  Subject: Re: aliases


  You don't have a copy of the ISOCOR toolkit do you?  I've been looking for
this for a while but can't find anyone who has a copy, I understand from
local myth that this give you the ability to build blacklists and anti relay
code etc.

  Peter
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Paul Webster
    To: Subscribers of WorldMail
    Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 9:41 AM
    Subject: RE: aliases


    If you liked they way that WorldMail worked - but want some more modern
features - then my suggestion is that you try to persuade CP (old ISOCOR
part) to give you an evaluation copy of IMS (formerly N-PLEX). WorldMail is
basically N-PLEX Office [V1.2 I think] ... and IMS is N-PLEX V5.5 [with V6
due soon]
    It is fully supported on Windows NT4 and Windows 2000 [and AIX, Solaris,
SGI].
    It will look very familiar to you - but has stacks of features added
over the 3 or so years since the Qualcomm version.
    I suspect that a problem that you will have is getting an eval copy -
since it is aimed as ISPs and huge corporates ... but it really works fine
in small installations.

    CP has clearly been going through a hard time recently - but the
underlying software (particularly the "insource" mail server) remains as
good as ever.

    If people are interested - I expect I could find list of the feature
add-ons from the post1.x release notes.
    Maybe Qualcomm will one day take on the new version or even find an
alternative supplier for similar technology.

    Paul [ex ISOCOR/CP]
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
    Sent: 24 May 2001 18:04
    To: Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail
    Subject: RE: aliases


    CommuniGate Pro is a terrific program. I built and configured a CGPro
mail system for one of my clients. Terrific application... BUT not very
friendly on the administration side. It was certainly built for Unix and not
for Win2k.. it just works for it.

    So once I got acquainted, I fell in love. Its a bit more pricey than
Worldmail... thats why i opted for Worldmail. Im partially regretting that
now.

    Either way, sounds like you got things pretty tight. I subscribe to the
MS security bullitens. They are very handy. Latest one is the Media Player
buffer bug. Thats a nerve wracking one! They suggest 7.1. Man... they
release more bugs than a swamp in florida!

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Dave Salovesh [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]
      Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 12:50 PM
      To: Subscribers of WorldMail
      Subject: RE: aliases


      The DoS was only circumstantially related, if at all - the route
inside was a well known Microsoft IIS bug, and the vulnerable server was the
sole machine I trusted my former supervisor to set up without my help.  It
was vulnerable without incident for 9 months, until the same general time as
when I saw a huge spike in spam relayed through us.  Coincidence?  Maybe,
maybe not.  Regardless, it has since been fixed, and the lessons have been
learned, more or less, I hope, and we're not blacklisted anywhere I know of.

      My WorldMail relay config now DENYs all (except specified IPs).  None
of my clients have seen the value of getting static IPs (we're not only
small-time, we're cheap, and our clients tend to be pretty cheap as well) so
I've effectively turned off outbound SMTP from clients.

      That works for me, but is not generally a good way to do business.

      I'm on this list because I need to support our current technologies,
but I'm looking for adequate replacements all around - WorldMail is a
dead-end as far as I'm concerned, and MS is bullying everyone out of the
mature NT4 environment and into Windows2000 or newer by the end of the year.
As long as I'll need to learn a new way of doing things, I'm considering
Linux/sendmail/postfix/... options, but my only Linux experience so far is
on our DNS servers (but that's still more time than I've spent with 2000
server).  My favorite option for Windows so far is CommuniGate Pro, but I'm
not in a phase where I can evaluate it well right now.
      --
      Dave Salovesh
      RAM Associates, Inc.
      (800) 543-3635



        -----Original Message-----
        From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
        Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:06 AM
        To: Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail
        Subject: RE: aliases


        Wow! Thanks for that little story! I am caught between a rock and a
hard place now! I feel your pain, and I can relate to you small time
operation. Sounds like we are in the same line of biz.

        So what have you done SINCE that DoS?  Have you turned on the
relaying configs?

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<HTML><HEAD>
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<DIV><SPAN class=108144118-01062001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>That 
is the majority of it - but missing the .h files [e.g. macros.h, 
imsfa.h, 
debug.h]</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=108144118-01062001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Then 
with those plus the sample code at the end .... a 'C' programmer should 
be able 
to get going pretty quickly.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=108144118-01062001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 

size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=108144118-01062001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 

size=2>Paul</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Doug Anderson 
[mailto:doug at douglasanderson dot net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> 30 May 2001 
04:14<BR><B>To:</B> Peter Martin; Paul Webster; Subscribers of 
WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=144475902-29052001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>ISOCOR 
Toolkit</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Peter Martin 
  [mailto:p.martin at ies.uk dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 25, 2001 9:53 

  AM<BR><B>To:</B> Paul Webster; Subscribers of 
WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: 
  aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You don't have a copy of the ISOCOR 
toolkit do 
  you?&nbsp; I've been looking for this for a while but can't find 
anyone who 
  has a copy, I understand from local myth that this give you the 
ability to 
  build blacklists and anti relay code etc.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Peter</FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
  style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; 
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV 
    style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: 
black"><B>From:</B> 
    <A title=paul at spidersweb.freeserve.co dot uk 
    href="mailto:paul at spidersweb.freeserve dot co dot uk">Paul Webster</A> 
</DIV>
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A 
    title=worldmail at lists.pensive dot org 
    href="mailto:worldmail at lists dot pensive dot org">Subscribers of 
WorldMail</A> 
</DIV>
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 25, 2001 
9:41 
AM</DIV>
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: aliases</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>If 
    you liked they way that WorldMail worked - but want some more modern 

    features - then my suggestion is that you try to persuade CP (old 
ISOCOR 
    part) to give you an evaluation copy of IMS (formerly N-PLEX). 
WorldMail is 
    basically N-PLEX Office [V1.2 I think]&nbsp;... and IMS is N-PLEX 
V5.5 [with 
    V6 due soon]</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>It 
    is fully supported on Windows NT4 and Windows 2000 [and AIX, 
Solaris, 
    SGI].</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>It 
    will look very familiar to you - but has stacks of features added 
over the 3 
    or so years since the Qualcomm version.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>I 
    suspect that a problem that you will have is getting an eval copy - 
since it 
    is aimed as ISPs and huge corporates ... but it really works fine in 
small 
    installations.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class=468142408-25052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>CP 
    has clearly been going through a hard time recently&nbsp;- but the 
    underlying software (particularly the "insource" mail server) 
remains as 
    good as ever.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class=468142408-25052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=468142408-25052001>If 
    people are interested - I expect I could find list of the feature 
add-ons 
    from the post1.x release notes.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class=468142408-25052001>Maybe Qualcomm will one day take on the 
new version 
    or even find an alternative supplier for similar 
    technology.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class=468142408-25052001></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2><SPAN class=468142408-25052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
    class=468142408-25052001>Paul [ex ISOCOR/CP]</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
    size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
    [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> 24 May 2001 
18:04<BR><B>To:</B> 
    Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: 
    aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2>CommuniGate Pro is a terrific program. I built and 
configured a CGPro 
    mail system for one of my clients. Terrific application... BUT not 
very 
    friendly on the administration side. It was certainly built for Unix 
and not 
    for Win2k.. it just works for it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2>So once I got acquainted, I fell in love. Its a bit more 
pricey than 
    Worldmail... thats why i opted for Worldmail. Im partially 
regretting that 
    now.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
    size=2>Either way, sounds like you got things pretty tight. I 
subscribe to 
    the MS security bullitens. They are very handy. Latest one is the 
Media 
    Player buffer bug. Thats a nerve wracking one! They suggest 7.1. 
Man... they 
    release more bugs than a swamp in florida!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN classƒ8370017-24052001></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
      size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Dave Salovesh 
      [mailto:salovesh at ramassociates dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 
24, 2001 
      12:50 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Subscribers of WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> 
RE: 
      aliases<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
      class–1574514-24052001>The DoS was only circumstantially 
related, if at 
      all - the route inside was a well known Microsoft IIS bug, and the 

      vulnerable server was the sole machine I trusted my former 
supervisor to 
      set up without my help.&nbsp; It was vulnerable without incident 
for 9 
      months, until the same general time as when I saw a huge spike in 
spam 
      relayed through us.&nbsp; Coincidence?&nbsp; Maybe, maybe 
not.&nbsp; 
      Regardless, it has since been fixed, and the lessons have been 
learned, 
      more or less, I hope, and we're not blacklisted anywhere I know 
      of.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
      class–1574514-24052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
      class–1574514-24052001>My WorldMail relay config now DENYs all 

      (except&nbsp;specified IPs).&nbsp; None of my clients have seen 
the value 
      of getting static IPs (we're not only small-time, we're cheap, and 
our 
      clients tend to be pretty cheap as well) so I've effectively 
turned off 
      outbound SMTP from clients.&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
      class–1574514-24052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
      class–1574514-24052001>That works for me, but is not generally 
a good 
      way to do business.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
      class–1574514-24052001>I'm on this list because I need to 
support our 
      current technologies, but I'm looking for adequate replacements 
all around 
      - WorldMail is&nbsp;a dead-end as far as I'm concerned, and MS is 
bullying 
      everyone out of the mature NT4 environment and into Windows2000 
      or&nbsp;newer by the end of the year.&nbsp; As long as I'll need 
to learn 
      a new way of doing things, I'm considering 
Linux/sendmail/postfix/... 
      options, but my only Linux experience so far is on our DNS servers 
(but 
      that's still more time than I've spent with 2000 server).&nbsp; My 

      favorite option for Windows so far is CommuniGate Pro, but I'm not 
in a 
      phase where I can evaluate it well right now.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
      <P><FONT size=2>--<BR>Dave Salovesh<BR>RAM Associates, 
Inc.<BR>(800) 
      543-3635<BR><BR></FONT></P>
      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
      style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 
2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
face=Tahoma 
        size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ben Saren 
        [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 24, 
2001 10:06 
        AM<BR><B>To:</B> Dave Salovesh; Subscribers of 
        WorldMail<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: aliases<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
        <DIV><SPAN class=247120114-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
        size=2>Wow! Thanks for that little story! I am caught between 
a rock and 
        a hard place now! I feel your pain, and I can relate to you 
small time 
        operation. Sounds like we are in the same line of 
        biz.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=247120114-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
        size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=247120114-24052001><FONT face=Tahoma 
color=#0000ff 
        size=2>So what have you done SINCE that DoS?&nbsp; Have you 
turned on 
        the relaying 
  
configs?</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC
KQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C0EAD4.27A49E00--


From: "Chris Lander" <chris at altuscorp dot com>
Subject: Windows 2000 Support
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:32:26 -0700

Hi everyone,

My company is going to be replacing our Windows NT servers with Windows 2000
servers in the next few weeks. Will I be able to use WorldMail 2.0 with W2K?

I've read the support articles on Eudora's website regarding Windows 2000
support (they appear to be taken line-for-line from a 3/31/00 posting to
this list by Gabriel Caunt), but I'm curious what real world experiences
everyone has had.

If Windows 2000 support isn't a viable option for Windows 2000, do you have
any suggestions for another mail server? I'm considering SLMail, but I'm not
set into anything yet.

Thanks in advance.

+---------------------------------------------------------+
Chris Lander                   Altus Learning Systems, Inc.
chris at altuscorp dot com                          (408) 210-7409
+---------------------------------------------------------+


From: "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
Subject: RE: Windows 2000 Support
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 12:42:21 -0400

Yes, I do. One problem though... the "manage" menu freezes when you roll
your mouse over it. But thats not a big deal cuz you can just right click on
an object to manage it.



-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Lander [mailto:chris at altuscorp dot com]
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 12:32 PM
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: Windows 2000 Support


Hi everyone,

My company is going to be replacing our Windows NT servers with Windows 2000
servers in the next few weeks. Will I be able to use WorldMail 2.0 with W2K?

I've read the support articles on Eudora's website regarding Windows 2000
support (they appear to be taken line-for-line from a 3/31/00 posting to
this list by Gabriel Caunt), but I'm curious what real world experiences
everyone has had.

If Windows 2000 support isn't a viable option for Windows 2000, do you have
any suggestions for another mail server? I'm considering SLMail, but I'm not
set into anything yet.

Thanks in advance.

+---------------------------------------------------------+
Chris Lander                   Altus Learning Systems, Inc.
chris at altuscorp dot com                          (408) 210-7409
+---------------------------------------------------------+



From: "Chris Lander" <chris at altuscorp dot com>
Subject: RE: Windows 2000 Support
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:00:39 -0700

Ben,

Thanks, that pretty much confirms what Eudora says in their "support"
articles. Did you have to tweak your registry first?

Just out of curiousity, did you start with a new install of Window 2000, or
did you do an upgrade from Windows NT?

+---------------------------------------------------------+
Chris Lander                   Altus Learning Systems, Inc.
chris at altuscorp dot com                          (408) 210-7409
+---------------------------------------------------------+

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 09:42
To: Chris Lander; Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: Windows 2000 Support


Yes, I do. One problem though... the "manage" menu freezes when you roll
your mouse over it. But thats not a big deal cuz you can just right click on
an object to manage it.



-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Lander [mailto:chris at altuscorp dot com]
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 12:32 PM
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: Windows 2000 Support


Hi everyone,

My company is going to be replacing our Windows NT servers with Windows 2000
servers in the next few weeks. Will I be able to use WorldMail 2.0 with W2K?

I've read the support articles on Eudora's website regarding Windows 2000
support (they appear to be taken line-for-line from a 3/31/00 posting to
this list by Gabriel Caunt), but I'm curious what real world experiences
everyone has had.

If Windows 2000 support isn't a viable option for Windows 2000, do you have
any suggestions for another mail server? I'm considering SLMail, but I'm not
set into anything yet.

Thanks in advance.

+---------------------------------------------------------+
Chris Lander                   Altus Learning Systems, Inc.
chris at altuscorp dot com                          (408) 210-7409
+---------------------------------------------------------+



From: "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
Subject: RE: Windows 2000 Support
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 13:10:44 -0400

Brand new server prebuilt with Win2k... Dell PowerEdge 2400.

Yes, I did have to do that rediculous tweak. Although, out off all the
entries Eudora said I had to modify, all but one was fine. The only one that
wasnt correct was the domain name, either that or DNS prim., secondary IPs.
Everything else was fine.

Aside from the common frustrations with Worldmail, I have not had any
problems with on win2k.

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Lander [mailto:chris at altuscorp dot com]
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 1:01 PM
To: Ben Saren; Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: Windows 2000 Support


Ben,

Thanks, that pretty much confirms what Eudora says in their "support"
articles. Did you have to tweak your registry first?

Just out of curiousity, did you start with a new install of Window 2000, or
did you do an upgrade from Windows NT?

+---------------------------------------------------------+
Chris Lander                   Altus Learning Systems, Inc.
chris at altuscorp dot com                          (408) 210-7409
+---------------------------------------------------------+

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 09:42
To: Chris Lander; Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: Windows 2000 Support


Yes, I do. One problem though... the "manage" menu freezes when you roll
your mouse over it. But thats not a big deal cuz you can just right click on
an object to manage it.



-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Lander [mailto:chris at altuscorp dot com]
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 12:32 PM
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: Windows 2000 Support


Hi everyone,

My company is going to be replacing our Windows NT servers with Windows 2000
servers in the next few weeks. Will I be able to use WorldMail 2.0 with W2K?

I've read the support articles on Eudora's website regarding Windows 2000
support (they appear to be taken line-for-line from a 3/31/00 posting to
this list by Gabriel Caunt), but I'm curious what real world experiences
everyone has had.

If Windows 2000 support isn't a viable option for Windows 2000, do you have
any suggestions for another mail server? I'm considering SLMail, but I'm not
set into anything yet.

Thanks in advance.

+---------------------------------------------------------+
Chris Lander                   Altus Learning Systems, Inc.
chris at altuscorp dot com                          (408) 210-7409
+---------------------------------------------------------+




From: "John Kirchner" <jkirch at jumpsource dot com>
Subject: Relay Problem
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:54:43 -0400

Hello All,

I have configured my server to only allow relaying from a certain range of
IP addresses:

IP           Subnet
10.0.0.0     255.255.255.0


I also stopped & restarted the SMTP service.

I attached to an external server to test the relay restrictions.  If I
configure my tester to use a non-local domain user (ex:
spammer at spamworld dot com) the server rejects the mail.  However
if I use a local domain user (ex:  spammer at ourdomain dot com) the server lets
the message go through!

What am I missing, somebody please fill me in.  Our server just got listed
on an abuse database because of our 'open relay' status.

Thanks
John


From: "Ben Saren" <ben at atomicusa dot com>
Subject: RE: Relay Problem
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:04:29 -0400

I like what you've done, but at the same time, whats the point of specifying
that range? Isnt that range basically the same thing as if you put nothing
in there?

Id like to know how to make a public email server NOT suseptible to being
put on ORBS etc.



-----Original Message-----
From: John Kirchner [mailto:jkirch at jumpsource dot com]
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 11:55 AM
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: Relay Problem


Hello All,

I have configured my server to only allow relaying from a certain range of
IP addresses:

IP           Subnet
10.0.0.0     255.255.255.0


I also stopped & restarted the SMTP service.

I attached to an external server to test the relay restrictions.  If I
configure my tester to use a non-local domain user (ex:
spammer at spamworld dot com) the server rejects the mail.  However
if I use a local domain user (ex:  spammer at ourdomain dot com) the server lets
the message go through!

What am I missing, somebody please fill me in.  Our server just got listed
on an abuse database because of our 'open relay' status.

Thanks
John



Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:04:10 +0200
From: Johan Malmberg <johan.malmberg at nextlevel dot se>
Subject: Re: Relay Problem

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi!

your configuration looks right!

Sending a mail to a local domain "ourdomain.com" does not require a
"relay" since it's on the same server!  If you want to prevent mails to
your local domain, you won't be able to receive any mails since no
server is allowed to send mail to your server... :)

/Johan Malmberg




John Kirchner wrote:
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> I have configured my server to only allow relaying from a certain range of
> IP addresses:
> 
> IP           Subnet
> 10.0.0.0     255.255.255.0
> 
> I also stopped & restarted the SMTP service.
> 
> I attached to an external server to test the relay restrictions.  If I
> configure my tester to use a non-local domain user (ex:
> spammer at spamworld dot com) the server rejects the mail.  However
> if I use a local domain user (ex:  spammer at ourdomain dot com) the server lets
> the message go through!
> 
> What am I missing, somebody please fill me in.  Our server just got listed
> on an abuse database because of our 'open relay' status.
> 
> Thanks
> John
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--------------52BD271BE2313C280C7CA2C1--


From: "John Kirchner" <jkirch at jumpsource dot com>
Subject: RE: Relay Problem
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:05:43 -0400

Hi Ben,

Our internal IP range is 10.0.0.1 -> 10.0.0.254 (non routable).

I am no expert on IP's and subnets but I do believe that the settings I
entered restrict
access to that block.  Am I wrong about this ?

If I remove the restriction I can relay as anyuser at anydomain dot com, If I add
the range I can only relay as fakeuser at ourdomain dot com.







-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Saren [mailto:ben at atomicusa dot com]
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 12:04 PM
To: John Kirchner; Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: Relay Problem


I like what you've done, but at the same time, whats the point of specifying
that range? Isnt that range basically the same thing as if you put nothing
in there?

Id like to know how to make a public email server NOT suseptible to being
put on ORBS etc.



-----Original Message-----
From: John Kirchner [mailto:jkirch at jumpsource dot com]
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 11:55 AM
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: Relay Problem


Hello All,

I have configured my server to only allow relaying from a certain range of
IP addresses:

IP           Subnet
10.0.0.0     255.255.255.0


I also stopped & restarted the SMTP service.

I attached to an external server to test the relay restrictions.  If I
configure my tester to use a non-local domain user (ex:
spammer at spamworld dot com) the server rejects the mail.  However
if I use a local domain user (ex:  spammer at ourdomain dot com) the server lets
the message go through!

What am I missing, somebody please fill me in.  Our server just got listed
on an abuse database because of our 'open relay' status.

Thanks
John



From: "John Kirchner" <jkirch at jumpsource dot com>
Subject: RE: Relay Problem
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:09:08 -0400

Hello,

I am not trying to prevent mail sent to a local domain, I am trying to
prevent someone sending mail
as if it originated from our domain (spamming).

With the SMTP relay restrictions in place I can still relay messages to an
outside domain, provided I
say my name is mrspammer at ourdomain dot com



-----Original Message-----
From: Johan Malmberg [mailto:johan.malmberg at nextlevel dot se]
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 12:04 PM
To: John Kirchner
Cc: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: Re: Relay Problem


Hi!

your configuration looks right!

Sending a mail to a local domain "ourdomain.com" does not require a
"relay" since it's on the same server!  If you want to prevent mails to
your local domain, you won't be able to receive any mails since no
server is allowed to send mail to your server... :)

/Johan Malmberg




John Kirchner wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
> I have configured my server to only allow relaying from a certain range of
> IP addresses:
>
> IP           Subnet
> 10.0.0.0     255.255.255.0
>
> I also stopped & restarted the SMTP service.
>
> I attached to an external server to test the relay restrictions.  If I
> configure my tester to use a non-local domain user (ex:
> spammer at spamworld dot com) the server rejects the mail.  However
> if I use a local domain user (ex:  spammer at ourdomain dot com) the server lets
> the message go through!
>
> What am I missing, somebody please fill me in.  Our server just got listed
> on an abuse database because of our 'open relay' status.
>
> Thanks
> John


From: "Michael Smallwood" <msmallwood at mindseye dot com>
Subject: Services Stopping
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:20:06 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I have been running Worldmail server for years without any real problems to
speak of. But, starting about 2 weeks ago, I have had problems keeping the
"Eudora Worldmail" service running. It seems to just stop every other hour
or so, with no real pattern.

I have gone through all the logs and events at the time the service stops,
and I see absolutely nothing out of the ordinary. My queue is very small.
The only other software running on this high end Dell server is PCAnywhere,
SMS, and Norton Corp. AntiVirus.

Although my initial thoughts were rooted with the mail server itself causing
an internal shutdown of the service, I now am leaning towards some external
program causing the conflict (because I see nothing unusual with the mail
server). The problem is I have no idea what this external source could be!

Any comments would be greatly appreciated!
...mike

------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C0F4CC.58A99B70
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; 
charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=634190516-14062001><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have 
been running 
Worldmail server for years without any real problems to speak of. But, 
starting 
about 2 weeks ago, I have had problems keeping the "Eudora Worldmail" 
service 
running. It seems to just stop every other hour or so, with no real 
pattern.&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=634190516-14062001></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=634190516-14062001><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have 
gone through 
all the logs and events at the time&nbsp;the service stops, and I see 
absolutely 
nothing out of the ordinary. My queue is very small. The only&nbsp;other 

software running on this high end Dell server is PCAnywhere, SMS, and 
Norton 
Corp.&nbsp;AntiVirus.&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=634190516-14062001></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=634190516-14062001><FONT face=Arial 
size=2>Although my initial 
thoughts were rooted with the mail server&nbsp;itself causing an 
internal 
shutdown of the service, I now am leaning towards some external program 
causing&nbsp;the conflict (because I see nothing unusual with the mail 
server). 
The problem is I have no idea what this external source could 
be!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=634190516-14062001></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=634190516-14062001><FONT face=Arial size=2>Any 
comments would 
be greatly appreciated!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=634190516-14062001><FONT face=Arial 
size=2>...mike</FONT>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C0F4CC.58A99B70--


Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:19:53 +0200
From: Johan Malmberg <johan.malmberg at nextlevel dot se>
Subject: Re: Relay Problem

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Hm!

The "from" address has absolutely nothing to do with relay
restrictions!  It all depends on what IP# the message is originating
from.  

/Johan




John Kirchner wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I am not trying to prevent mail sent to a local domain, I am trying to
> prevent someone sending mail
> as if it originated from our domain (spamming).
> 
> With the SMTP relay restrictions in place I can still relay messages to an
> outside domain, provided I
> say my name is mrspammer at ourdomain dot com
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Johan Malmberg [mailto:johan.malmberg at nextlevel dot se]
> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 12:04 PM
> To: John Kirchner
> Cc: Subscribers of WorldMail
> Subject: Re: Relay Problem
> 
> Hi!
> 
> your configuration looks right!
> 
> Sending a mail to a local domain "ourdomain.com" does not require a
> "relay" since it's on the same server!  If you want to prevent mails to
> your local domain, you won't be able to receive any mails since no
> server is allowed to send mail to your server... :)
> 
> /Johan Malmberg
> 
> John Kirchner wrote:
> >
> > Hello All,
> >
> > I have configured my server to only allow relaying from a certain range of
> > IP addresses:
> >
> > IP           Subnet
> > 10.0.0.0     255.255.255.0
> >
> > I also stopped & restarted the SMTP service.
> >
> > I attached to an external server to test the relay restrictions.  If I
> > configure my tester to use a non-local domain user (ex:
> > spammer at spamworld dot com) the server rejects the mail.  However
> > if I use a local domain user (ex:  spammer at ourdomain dot com) the server lets
> > the message go through!
> >
> > What am I missing, somebody please fill me in.  Our server just got listed
> > on an abuse database because of our 'open relay' status.
> >
> > Thanks
> > John
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fn:Johan Malmberg
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--------------46FB6DE3244EAC8276B15903--


Last updated on 14 Jun 2001 by Pensive Mailing List Admin