The qpopper list archive ending on 13 Dec 2000


Topics covered in this issue include:

  1. RE: multiple domains
       "InvictaNet Customer Support" <support at invictanet.co dot uk>
       Mon, 4 Dec 2000 23:00:24 -0000
  2. Re: multiple domains
       Steven Champeon <schampeo at hesketh dot com>
       Mon, 4 Dec 2000 18:10:56 -0500
  3. Re: Please educate me  :)
       Peter Evans <peter at gol dot com>
       Tue, 5 Dec 2000 08:26:09 +0900
  4. Re: multiple domains
       Jack Sasportas <jack at innovativeinternet dot com>
       Mon, 04 Dec 2000 21:36:43 -0500
  5. Re: qpopper on 2036 - flag --with-log-device
       Randall Gellens <randy at qualcomm dot com>
       Mon, 4 Dec 2000 19:17:13 -0800
  6. Re: MAC difficulty
       Randall Gellens <randy at qualcomm dot com>
       Mon, 4 Dec 2000 19:31:33 -0800
  7. Re: Qpopper and "xsender"
       Randall Gellens <randy at qualcomm dot com>
       Mon, 4 Dec 2000 19:14:29 -0800
  8. Re: Problems with log file
       Randall Gellens <randy at qualcomm dot com>
       Mon, 4 Dec 2000 19:29:08 -0800
  9. Re: Please educate me  :)
       Randall Gellens <randy at qualcomm dot com>
       Mon, 4 Dec 2000 19:34:36 -0800
 10. RE: MAC difficulty
       Randall Gellens <randy at qualcomm dot com>
       Mon, 4 Dec 2000 19:33:56 -0800
 11. Re: multiple domains
       Fergal Daly <fergal at esatclear dot ie>
       Tue, 5 Dec 2000 11:10:00 +0000
 12. Re: Please educate me  :)
       "Lisa Casey" <lisa at jellico dot com>
       Tue, 5 Dec 2000 09:13:39 -0500
 13. Re: multiple domains
       Jack Sasportas <jack at innovativeinternet dot com>
       Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:00:17 -0500
 14. getpwnam inefficiency in genpath
       Fergal Daly <fergal at esatclear dot ie>
       Tue, 5 Dec 2000 15:47:48 +0000
 15. Re: multiple domains
       Fergal Daly <fergal at esatclear dot ie>
       Tue, 5 Dec 2000 16:05:09 +0000
 16. =5Brodrigoa=40bestway=2Ecom=2Ebr:_Mensagem_automática_-
       Fergal Daly <fergal at esatclear dot ie>
       Tue, 5 Dec 2000 16:12:04 +0000
 17. RE: MAC difficulty
       "InvictaNet Customer Support" <support at invictanet.co dot uk>
       Tue, 5 Dec 2000 18:32:56 -0000
 18. Re: multiple domains
       Joseph S D Yao <jsdy at cospo.osis dot gov>
       Tue, 5 Dec 2000 14:04:00 -0500
 19. bulldb
       hypnose at t-online dot de (guenter wessling)
       Tue, 05 Dec 2000 21:57:06 +0100
 20. Logging Output ?
       Jack Sasportas <jack at innovativeinternet dot com>
       Wed, 06 Dec 2000 10:57:49 -0500
 21. Maildir - not enoug help
       "Radek Michalski" <radek.michalski at interia dot pl>
       Thu, 7 Dec 2000 00:44:20 +0100
 22. mailbox format
       Sergiy Zhuk <serge at yahoo-inc dot com>
       Wed, 6 Dec 2000 22:26:58 -0800 (PST)
 23. Re: mailbox format
       Jesus Cea Avion <jcea at argo dot es>
       Thu, 07 Dec 2000 10:40:03 +0100
 24. Documentation.. setting up users..
       Michael <mogmios at mlug.missouri dot edu>
       Thu, 7 Dec 2000 08:46:09 -0600 (CST)
 25. Re: mailbox format
       Joseph S D Yao <jsdy at cospo.osis dot gov>
       Thu, 7 Dec 2000 12:36:23 -0500
 26. Re: Documentation.. setting up users..
       Joseph S D Yao <jsdy at cospo.osis dot gov>
       Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:51:21 -0500
 27. Re: mailbox format
       Jesus Cea Avion <jcea at argo dot es>
       Thu, 07 Dec 2000 19:57:56 +0100
 28. Re: Documentation.. setting up users..
       "Kenneth Porter" <shiva at well dot com>
       Thu, 07 Dec 2000 16:48:51 -0800
 29. how do i use both apop + clear text passwords
       Wasim Bashir <wasim.bashir at broadband.co dot uk>
       Fri, 8 Dec 2000 15:09:45 +0000
 30. Re: getpwnam inefficiency in genpath
       Qpopper Support <qpopper at qualcomm dot com>
       Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:12:28 -0800
 31. qpopper using maildir format
       Sergiy Zhuk <serge at yahoo-inc dot com>
       Fri, 8 Dec 2000 17:12:32 -0800 (PST)
 32. Re: qpopper using maildir format
       Forrest Aldrich <forrie at forrie dot com>
       Fri, 08 Dec 2000 20:21:19 -0500
 33. Re: qpopper using maildir format
       Sergiy Zhuk <serge at yahoo-inc dot com>
       Fri, 8 Dec 2000 17:35:06 -0800 (PST)
 34. Re: qpopper using maildir format
       "Kenneth Porter" <shiva at well dot com>
       Fri, 08 Dec 2000 18:54:05 -0800
 35. Re: qpopper using maildir format
       Sergiy Zhuk <serge at yahoo-inc dot com>
       Fri, 8 Dec 2000 19:11:24 -0800 (PST)
 36. Re: qpopper using maildir format
       "Kenneth Porter" <shiva at well dot com>
       Fri, 08 Dec 2000 19:52:11 -0800
 37. Re: qpopper using maildir format
       Carl Schelin <cschelin at hq.nasa dot gov>
       Fri, 08 Dec 2000 23:37:45 -0500
 38. Re: qpopper using maildir format
       Alan Brown <alan at manawatu.gen dot nz>
       Sat, 9 Dec 2000 18:18:02 +1300 (NZDT)
 39. Re: qpopper using maildir format
       Forrest Aldrich <forrie at forrie dot com>
       Sat, 09 Dec 2000 00:37:47 -0500
 40. Re: qpopper using maildir format
       Piotr Kasztelowicz <pekasz at lodz.ptkardio dot pl>
       Sat, 9 Dec 2000 08:23:47 +0100 (MET)
 41. Re: qpopper using maildir format
       Qpopper Support <qpopper at qualcomm dot com>
       Fri, 8 Dec 2000 23:58:27 -0800
 42. Re: qpopper using maildir format
       Piotr Kasztelowicz <pekasz at lodz.ptkardio dot pl>
       Sat, 9 Dec 2000 09:18:06 +0100 (MET)
 43. Shadow passwords with DES encryption
       Gustavo Viscaino <g_viscaino at yahoo dot com>
       Sun, 10 Dec 2000 07:08:32 -0800 (PST)
 44. Re: qpopper using maildir format
       Eric Luyten <Eric.Luyten at vub.ac dot be>
       Mon, 11 Dec 2000 13:00:48 +0100 (MET)
 45. Current SCAM via 809 Area Code
       Jack Sasportas <jack at innovativeinternet dot com>
       Mon, 11 Dec 2000 14:44:49 -0500
 46. Idea! Re: qpopper using maildir format
       Jack Sasportas <jack at innovativeinternet dot com>
       Mon, 11 Dec 2000 16:58:40 -0500
 47. defunct processes in server mode ???
       "Peter R. Hubberstey" <peter at ukip dot com>
       Wed, 13 Dec 2000 12:08:04 -0000
 48. RE: defunct processes in server mode ???
       "Peter R. Hubberstey" <peter at ukip dot com>
       Wed, 13 Dec 2000 14:32:01 -0000
 49. RE: defunct processes in server mode ???
       Sergiy Zhuk <serge at yahoo-inc dot com>
       Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:34:02 -0800 (PST)
 50. RE: defunct processes in server mode ???
       Alan Brown <alan at manawatu.gen dot nz>
       Thu, 14 Dec 2000 17:46:29 +1300 (NZDT)

From: "InvictaNet Customer Support" <support at invictanet.co dot uk>
Subject: RE: multiple domains
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 23:00:24 -0000

You need to be using the virtual hosting function in sendmail.

i.e.
postmaster at domain dot 1 user1
postmaster at domain dot 2 user2

then popper doesn't care who the mail was addressed to, only who is
collecting it.

www.sendmail.org has a section on how to set this up.

Martyn Routley
-----------------------------------------------------
InvictaNet - The Internet in Plain English, Guaranteed
http://www.invictanet.co.uk
mailto:info at invictanet.co dot uk
phone: 0870 7402252
fax: +44 (0)1233 334001
------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Frey [mailto:tom at udzhome dot de]
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 10:49 PM
To: Subscribers of Qpopper
Subject: multiple domains


I want to setup my mailserver to handle mutliple domains.
But the problem is the pop server...

Let's assume i have 2 domains hosted and every domain has a user called
postmaster... what to do?
Is there any way to define them for different domains?

I also tried to set my usernames to: name at domain dot de but qpopper seems not to
pass usernames containing an " @ ".

thx tom


Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 18:10:56 -0500
From: Steven Champeon <schampeo at hesketh dot com>
Subject: Re: multiple domains

on Mon, Dec 04, 2000 at 11:48:50PM +0100, Tom Frey wrote:
> I want to setup my mailserver to handle mutliple domains.
> But the problem is the pop server... 

Nope. That's not the problem. :)

> Let's assume i have 2 domains hosted and every domain has a user
> called postmaster... what to do?

You can't create two users having the same name on any UNIX system
I've ever worked on [1]- how did you do it on yours? And as the POP
server will look for $SPOOLDIR/$USERNAME, that also runs afoul of the
simple laws of virtual physics. You *can* have multiple POP accounts
that receive mail for the postmaster email address for any given
domain, though. But as far as POP is concerned, it's just going to
look for a user account, not a user@domain account. So name your users
something different for each POP account, and configure your mail
server to deliver mail addresses to a given email address or addresses
to an appropriate POP account (e.g., mail spool file owned by a
particular local user).

> Is there any way to define them for different domains?

You don't mention what SMTP server you're running, so it's difficult
to say exactly how this should be done in your case, but I'm running
sendmail and have had pretty good luck using the virtusertable.
 
 http://www.sendmail.org/virtual-hosting.html

Hint: user with the address 'postmaster at example dot com' might be named
'pmacct1' and user with the address 'postmaster at example dot net' might be
named 'pmacct2'.  But of course, it's completely arbitrary at that
point - you can name the users however you like, within whatever
constraints are set by your particular OS.

Oh, and this is a FAQ:

 "Does Qpopper support virtual domains?"
 http://www.eudora.com/qpopper/faq.html#virt.dom

HTH,
Steve

[1] well, you *can*, but with unpredictable results ;)

-- 
tired of being an underappreciated functionary in a soulless machine?
hesketh.com is hiring: http://www.hesketh.com/careers/

Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 08:26:09 +0900
From: Peter Evans <peter at gol dot com>
Subject: Re: Please educate me  :)

Lisa Casey (lisa at jellico dot com) wrote:
> I'm running Sendmail and qpopper 3.0fc1 on FreeBSD. I need to find out if
> the version of qpopper I'm using supports etrn. It would probably help if I
> even knew what etrn is....   A quick serch on the 'Net didn't turn up much
> hard info on it.
 
	Sendmail is the bit that does ETRN, so it doesn't really
	belong on this list. (http://www.sendmail.org/) However,
	the two are quite closely related, you have to get mail
	into the machine to get it out with popper. Something like
	that should go in the FAQ.

	Anyway, if you are bored, you can do something like this
	to your sendmail box: (my inputs are marked with <<<<<<

dig jellico.com mx		<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
;; ANSWER SECTION:
jellico.com.            86400   IN      MX      10 jellico.com.
;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
jellico.com.            86400   IN      A       205.160.50.2
telnet 205.160.50.2 25		<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Trying 205.160.50.2...
Connected to 205.160.50.2.
Escape character is '^]'.
220- jellico.com SMTP Server [Interstate 2000, Inc.]
220-Running on Worldgroup with MajorTCP/IP [2.21-0] nbTCP: 255/11 55288449
220 Ready.
helo kitty		<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
250 jellico.com says hello to you kitty [64.56.166.0].
etrn		<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
500 Unrecognized command [etrn]. Type "HELP" for a list of commands.
quit		<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
221 Goodbye.
Connection closed by foreign host.





-- 
Remember The 5 K's.	 The Justified Agents of Munya-munya-muuuu ...

Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 21:36:43 -0500
From: Jack Sasportas <jack at innovativeinternet dot com>
Subject: Re: multiple domains

There is a way to do it, I don't know how, but large ISP's are doing it.
I have heard something called maildir something that QMail works with, and
also some people mentioned ldap as another possible way.  I do beleive
they use their own user file rather then linux's passwd, so it would be
something like

/home/mail/domain1/userlist.txt
                               /bob
                               /mike
                  domain2/userlist.txt
                               /bob
                               /joe
                  domain2/userlist.txt
                               /joe
                               /jay
Each domain has a file containing all the names for the users within it,
and then each user has their own mail directory to store incoming mail.

You can find out more about it under "http://www.inter7.com/qmail/"
Read everything on that page, they even wrote a program called vpopmail.
I really want to do what I am talking about here, via postfix & qpopper,
but don't have the expertise.... anyone with great instructions please
send them over...

Good Luck!


Steven Champeon wrote:

> on Mon, Dec 04, 2000 at 11:48:50PM +0100, Tom Frey wrote:
> > I want to setup my mailserver to handle mutliple domains.
> > But the problem is the pop server...
>
> Nope. That's not the problem. :)
>
> > Let's assume i have 2 domains hosted and every domain has a user
> > called postmaster... what to do?
>
> You can't create two users having the same name on any UNIX system
> I've ever worked on [1]- how did you do it on yours? And as the POP
> server will look for $SPOOLDIR/$USERNAME, that also runs afoul of the
> simple laws of virtual physics. You *can* have multiple POP accounts
> that receive mail for the postmaster email address for any given
> domain, though. But as far as POP is concerned, it's just going to
> look for a user account, not a user@domain account. So name your users
> something different for each POP account, and configure your mail
> server to deliver mail addresses to a given email address or addresses
> to an appropriate POP account (e.g., mail spool file owned by a
> particular local user).
>
> > Is there any way to define them for different domains?
>
> You don't mention what SMTP server you're running, so it's difficult
> to say exactly how this should be done in your case, but I'm running
> sendmail and have had pretty good luck using the virtusertable.
>
>  http://www.sendmail.org/virtual-hosting.html
>
> Hint: user with the address 'postmaster at example dot com' might be named
> 'pmacct1' and user with the address 'postmaster at example dot net' might be
> named 'pmacct2'.  But of course, it's completely arbitrary at that
> point - you can name the users however you like, within whatever
> constraints are set by your particular OS.
>
> Oh, and this is a FAQ:
>
>  "Does Qpopper support virtual domains?"
>  http://www.eudora.com/qpopper/faq.html#virt.dom
>
> HTH,
> Steve
>
> [1] well, you *can*, but with unpredictable results ;)
>
> --
> tired of being an underappreciated functionary in a soulless machine?
> hesketh.com is hiring: http://www.hesketh.com/careers/

--
___________________________________________________________
Jack Sasportas
Innovative Internet Solutions
Phone 305.665.2500
Fax 305.665.2551
www.innovativeinternet.com
www.web56.net



Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 19:17:13 -0800
From: Randall Gellens <randy at qualcomm dot com>
Subject: Re: qpopper on 2036 - flag --with-log-device

At 10:04 PM +0100 12/1/00, guenter wessling wrote:

>  Hi, all.
>  This is to Mr. G. again:
>  Compiling 3.1.2 on my linux 2.0.36 works all right, as long as I do not put
>  the
>  --with-log-facility flag into ./configure.
>  --enable-log-login works - just the "facility" is dismissed (configure
>  steps out).
>  Does the specified logfile have to be "touched" in advance ?

The facility needs to be in the log.h file, and the /etc/syslog.conf 
file, and you need to send syslogd a HUP signal.  I've tested it, and 
it works fine on Linux.  For example, you can tell Qpopper to use 
LOCAL2, and set LOCAL2 to log to /var/log/poplog in /etc/syslog.conf.

I have had some trouble getting it to work on Solaris, though.

>  Despite from this, 3.1.2 fullfills all my wishes.

Glad to hear it.


Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 19:31:33 -0800
From: Randall Gellens <randy at qualcomm dot com>
Subject: Re: MAC difficulty

At 9:30 AM +0100 12/2/00, Gian-Carlo Baldarelli wrote:

>  qpop 3.0.2

try upgrading to 3.1.2.

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 19:14:29 -0800
From: Randall Gellens <randy at qualcomm dot com>
Subject: Re: Qpopper and "xsender"

At 3:30 PM -0500 12/1/00, Scott McDermott wrote:

>  Brian Curtis on Fri  1/12 15:21 -0500:
>>  qpopper[20154]: [username] at [isp.net] (1.2.3.4): -ERR Unknown
>>  command: "xsender". [pop_get_command.c:122]
>
>  My guess is that this is just server-side support for parsing X-Sender:
>  headers and passing them back to the client.  They're not necessary but
>  might allow some cases to optimize.  They can be safely ignored...we do
>  here without problems.

Netscape clients send the "xsender" command, which I believe is a 
proprietary extension supported by the Netscape server which returns 
to the client the authenticated identity of the message's sender.  It 
has nothing to do with the "X-Sender" header.  As I understand it, if 
the Netscape server receives a message in an authenticated SMTP 
transaction, it passes the authenticated sender id along to the 
client on request via its 'xsender" command.

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 19:29:08 -0800
From: Randall Gellens <randy at qualcomm dot com>
Subject: Re: Problems with log file

At 4:55 PM -1000 12/1/00, Marc Jacquard wrote:

>  Since installing the new Qpopper 3.1.2, we have been seeing millisecond
>  access time and no year designated in the log file. Is there a way to get
>  rid of the millisecond field and put the year back in?  We have several
>  programs that parse this log for reports and we really do not want to
>  rewrite all of these programs.  Also, we store these logs and sometimes have
>  to search them for our client.  It is really inconvenient not to have the
>  year in each entry line of the log.

A change was made during the 3.x development to use finer time 
granularity and no year in the debug log records, but this only 
affects records written when compiled with '--enable-debugging' and 
the '-t' option.

If you compile without debugging, or leave debugging but use '-d' 
instead of '-t' (that is, write records to the syslog instead of to a 
specified trace file), you should get the standard format.


Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 19:34:36 -0800
From: Randall Gellens <randy at qualcomm dot com>
Subject: Re: Please educate me  :)

At 11:48 AM -0500 12/4/00, Lisa Casey wrote:

>  I'm running Sendmail and qpopper 3.0fc1

You really should upgrade to 3.1.2.

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 19:33:56 -0800
From: Randall Gellens <randy at qualcomm dot com>
Subject: RE: MAC difficulty

At 11:52 AM +0000 12/2/00, InvictaNet Customer Support wrote:

>  (2) Although Mac computers are very clever for some things, their brains
>  seem to have no end of problems with TCP/IP. For instance, you can only
>  connect to one interface at a  time, so if they use a modem for web
>  browsing, they will not be able to use an ethernet interface to collect
>  their email from an internal mail server .

Support for multiple interfaces, and lots of other things, are built 
in to the TCP stack (Macs use the same Mentat TCP/IP stack used by 
Solaris and other OSes).  There are shareware packages that turn this 
on.  A lot of people use Macs as a router and NAT box to, for 
example, share a cable modem or DSL line amongst a collection of 
systems.

Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 11:10:00 +0000
From: Fergal Daly <fergal at esatclear dot ie>
Subject: Re: multiple domains

I'll probably be doing this in the next month or so. My plan is to use exim
which someone in the office has already configured for use with our MySQL
database. It took with very little work.

I have my own MySQL patches for qpopper and I plan to make them command line
dependent, ie. you specify the name of the database table on the command
line and it looks up all details in that.

The final piece of the puzzle requires xinetd, this allows you to specify
which IP address to bind a command to. The plan is to have pop.domain1 =
10.0.0.1 and pop.domain2 = 10.0.0.2 then set up xinetd to call popper with
different arguments on each IP address. Something similar to IP based
virtual hosts in apache.

Fergal

On Mon, Dec 04, 2000 at 09:36:43PM -0500, Jack Sasportas wrote:
> There is a way to do it, I don't know how, but large ISP's are doing it.
> I have heard something called maildir something that QMail works with, and
> also some people mentioned ldap as another possible way.  I do beleive
> they use their own user file rather then linux's passwd, so it would be
> something like

From: "Lisa Casey" <lisa at jellico dot com>
Subject: Re: Please educate me  :)
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 09:13:39 -0500

Hi Peter (and everyone who replied),

I discovered after I sent this E-mail that ETRN is indeed a Sendmail issue
and not a qpopper one. Thanks to all who replied anyway  :)  Sometimes when
you're not familiar with a concept it is difficult to tell at first if the
POP server or Sendmail is responsible.

However Peter, don't assume that because my mail  is coming from jellico.com
that this is the mail server I'm talking about. As you discovered,
jellico.com is not a FBSD box running sendmail or qpopper. Actually that
server is jellico.net

I understand a lot more about ETRN this morning than I did yesterday morning
though I'm still having some trouble getting it implemented correctly. I'll
take that issue to a sendmail list though.

Thanks again,

Lisa Casey, Webmaster
Interstate 2000, Inc.
lisa at jellico dot com
webmaster at jellico dot com

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Evans <peter at gol dot com>
To: Lisa Casey <lisa at jellico dot com>
Cc: Subscribers of Qpopper <qpopper at lists.pensive dot org>
Date: Monday, December 04, 2000 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: Please educate me :)


>Lisa Casey (lisa at jellico dot com) wrote:
>> I'm running Sendmail and qpopper 3.0fc1 on FreeBSD. I need to find out if
>> the version of qpopper I'm using supports etrn. It would probably help if
I
>> even knew what etrn is....   A quick serch on the 'Net didn't turn up
much
>> hard info on it.
>
> Sendmail is the bit that does ETRN, so it doesn't really
> belong on this list. (http://www.sendmail.org/) However,
> the two are quite closely related, you have to get mail
> into the machine to get it out with popper. Something like
> that should go in the FAQ.
>
> Anyway, if you are bored, you can do something like this
> to your sendmail box: (my inputs are marked with <<<<<<
>
>dig jellico.com mx <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>;; ANSWER SECTION:
>jellico.com.            86400   IN      MX      10 jellico.com.
>;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
>jellico.com.            86400   IN      A       205.160.50.2
>telnet 205.160.50.2 25 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>Trying 205.160.50.2...
>Connected to 205.160.50.2.
>Escape character is '^]'.
>220- jellico.com SMTP Server [Interstate 2000, Inc.]
>220-Running on Worldgroup with MajorTCP/IP [2.21-0] nbTCP: 255/11 55288449
>220 Ready.
>helo kitty <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>250 jellico.com says hello to you kitty [64.56.166.0].
>etrn <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>500 Unrecognized command [etrn]. Type "HELP" for a list of commands.
>quit <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>221 Goodbye.
>Connection closed by foreign host.
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>Remember The 5 K's. The Justified Agents of Munya-munya-muuuu ...
>
>




Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:00:17 -0500
From: Jack Sasportas <jack at innovativeinternet dot com>
Subject: Re: multiple domains

Just to share, I think the whole IP thing is more complicated and doesn't help
when you need to go to a high availability situation.
I think maildir will do everything you want...

Fergal Daly wrote:

> I'll probably be doing this in the next month or so. My plan is to use exim
> which someone in the office has already configured for use with our MySQL
> database. It took with very little work.
>
> I have my own MySQL patches for qpopper and I plan to make them command line
> dependent, ie. you specify the name of the database table on the command
> line and it looks up all details in that.
>
> The final piece of the puzzle requires xinetd, this allows you to specify
> which IP address to bind a command to. The plan is to have pop.domain1 =
> 10.0.0.1 and pop.domain2 = 10.0.0.2 then set up xinetd to call popper with
> different arguments on each IP address. Something similar to IP based
> virtual hosts in apache.
>
> Fergal
>
> On Mon, Dec 04, 2000 at 09:36:43PM -0500, Jack Sasportas wrote:
> > There is a way to do it, I don't know how, but large ISP's are doing it.
> > I have heard something called maildir something that QMail works with, and
> > also some people mentioned ldap as another possible way.  I do beleive
> > they use their own user file rather then linux's passwd, so it would be
> > something like

--
___________________________________________________________
Jack Sasportas
Innovative Internet Solutions
Phone 305.665.2500
Fax 305.665.2551
www.innovativeinternet.com
www.web56.net



Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 15:47:48 +0000
From: Fergal Daly <fergal at esatclear dot ie>
Subject: getpwnam inefficiency in genpath

Hi all,
	I'm using the homedir mail and I was doing some messing about with
eliminating /etc/passwd when I discovered that every time I log in, genpath
gets called 4 times, which means that getpwnam is called 4 times, which will
cause a big hit with a large passwd file (or if you use a DB). There are also
several other places in the code that do passwd file lookups.

It would be nice if qpopper did a single getpwnam call and then cached the
results somewhere (maybe in the in POP structure). I know genpath doesn't
have access to this structure (and it shouldn't either) but I think there
should be a way of passing an already retrieved passwd structure into
genpath.

A single passwd lookup opens the door for very easy addition of weird and
wacky custom passwd lookup methods. By the way, you still need to worry
about passwd lookups even if you're using PAM, Kerberos or APOP as these are
simply authentication methods and do not handle UID, GID or homedir lookup.

There's a bit of work involved in making this happen and I'm willing to do
it but only if the maintainers are open to accepting this sort of change.
So, maintainers, are you?

Fergal

Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 16:05:09 +0000
From: Fergal Daly <fergal at esatclear dot ie>
Subject: Re: multiple domains

I had a quick look at the vpopmail stuff and they have two methods, one is
to use IP based virtual domains and the other is to use usernames of the
form username%domain.

The first method is what I was talking about. The second is fine if you're
setting up from scratch but when you have an existing base of several
hundred thousand users, you're going to have serious trouble getting
everyone to change to a new login!

Fergal


On Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 10:00:17AM -0500, Jack Sasportas wrote:
> Just to share, I think the whole IP thing is more complicated and doesn't help
> when you need to go to a high availability situation.
> I think maildir will do everything you want...

Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 16:12:04 +0000
From: Fergal Daly <fergal at esatclear dot ie>
Subject: =5Brodrigoa=40bestway=2Ecom=2Ebr:_Mensagem_automática_-


--G4iJoqBmSsgzjUCe
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

Could the list maintainer please unsubscribe this guy, I don't speak
Portuguese but I reckon he's got an out of office program that makes no
effort to remember who it's already mailed, not very list friendly,

Fergal


--G4iJoqBmSsgzjUCe
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

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Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 13:52:37 -0200
Message-Id: <200012051552.eB5Fqbi02327 at voyager.bestway.com dot br>
From: Rodrigo Luiz Anami <rodrigoa at bestway.com dot br>
To: Fergal Daly <fergal at esatclear dot ie>
Subject: Mensagem autom·tica - Estou de fÈrias !!!


Estou em fÈrias do dia 30/11/2000 atÈ o dia 11/12/2000 e por
isso n“o poderei responder o seu e-mail.

Caso seja algum problema emergencial, peÁo que contacte o Diogo
ou o Flavio no telefone 3736-3700 ou no seguinte e-mail:

sistemas at bestway.com dot br



Grato,

Rodrigo



-----------------Mensagem enviada---------------------------
>From Qpopper-errors at lists.pensive dot org Tue Dec  5 13:52:35 2000
>Received: from turing.pensive.org (turing.pensive.org [204.210.11.246])
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>Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 15:47:48 +0000
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>Precedence: bulk
>List-Subscribe: <mailto:qpopper-request at lists.pensive dot org?body=subscribe>
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>To: Subscribers of Qpopper <qpopper at lists.pensive dot org>
>Subject: getpwnam inefficiency in genpath
>Mime-Version: 1.0
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>Message-Id: <374365561180458117351 at lists.pensive dot org>
>
>Hi all,
>	I'm using the homedir mail and I was doing some messing about with
>eliminating /etc/passwd when I discovered that every time I log in, genpath
>gets called 4 times, which means that getpwnam is called 4 times, which will
>cause a big hit with a large passwd file (or if you use a DB). There are also
>several other places in the code that do passwd file lookups.
>
>It would be nice if qpopper did a single getpwnam call and then cached the
>results somewhere (maybe in the in POP structure). I know genpath doesn't
>have access to this structure (and it shouldn't either) but I think there
>should be a way of passing an already retrieved passwd structure into
>genpath.
>
>A single passwd lookup opens the door for very easy addition of weird and
>wacky custom passwd lookup methods. By the way, you still need to worry
>about passwd lookups even if you're using PAM, Kerberos or APOP as these are
>simply authentication methods and do not handle UID, GID or homedir lookup.
>
>There's a bit of work involved in making this happen and I'm willing to do
>it but only if the maintainers are open to accepting this sort of change.
>So, maintainers, are you?
>
>Fergal

--G4iJoqBmSsgzjUCe--

From: "InvictaNet Customer Support" <support at invictanet.co dot uk>
Subject: RE: MAC difficulty
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 18:32:56 -0000

I wish I had known that 2 years ago........

Martyn Routley
-----------------------------------------------------
InvictaNet - The Internet in Plain English, Guaranteed
http://www.invictanet.co.uk
mailto:info at invictanet.co dot uk
phone: 0870 7402252
fax: +44 (0)1233 334001 
------------------------------------------------------ 



-----Original Message-----
From: Randall Gellens [mailto:randy at qualcomm dot com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 3:34 AM
To: InvictaNet Customer Support; Subscribers of Qpopper
Cc: Gian-Carlo Baldarelli
Subject: RE: MAC difficulty


At 11:52 AM +0000 12/2/00, InvictaNet Customer Support wrote:

>  (2) Although Mac computers are very clever for some things, their brains
>  seem to have no end of problems with TCP/IP. For instance, you can only
>  connect to one interface at a  time, so if they use a modem for web
>  browsing, they will not be able to use an ethernet interface to collect
>  their email from an internal mail server .

Support for multiple interfaces, and lots of other things, are built 
in to the TCP stack (Macs use the same Mentat TCP/IP stack used by 
Solaris and other OSes).  There are shareware packages that turn this 
on.  A lot of people use Macs as a router and NAT box to, for 
example, share a cable modem or DSL line amongst a collection of 
systems.


Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 14:04:00 -0500
From: Joseph S D Yao <jsdy at cospo.osis dot gov>
Subject: Re: multiple domains

On Mon, Dec 04, 2000 at 11:48:50PM +0100, Tom Frey wrote:
> I want to setup my mailserver to handle mutliple domains.
> But the problem is the pop server... 
> 
> Let's assume i have 2 domains hosted and every domain has a user called postmaster... what to do? 
> Is there any way to define them for different domains?
> 
> I also tried to set my usernames to: name at domain dot de but qpopper seems not to pass usernames containing an " @ ".
> 
> thx tom

You can tell 'sendmail' to forward mail to postmaster at domain dot 2 to
another e-mail account, e.g., postmaster2, and then read it from that.

-- 
Joe Yao				jsdy at cospo.osis dot gov - Joseph S. D. Yao
COSPO/OSIS Computer Support					EMT-B
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This message is not an official statement of COSPO policies.

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 21:57:06 +0100
From: hypnose at t-online dot de (guenter wessling)
Subject: bulldb

Hi, all. Enthusiasm was too early....
For some reason the bulletins don´t work. (Linux 2036)
popper creates bulldb all right when a user asks for mail.
But the bullis don´t show up.
Settings:
/var/spool/bulls root mail 755
files inside:
0001.bulletin.....0004.bulletin root mail 644
bulldb.dir and bulldb.pag root mail 644
popper and popauth root root 755 (popauth works perfectly; is 755 a
security risk ?)
bulldb is created by popper as root root 600.
The messages have the proposed header, one blank line to message body.
Is this a 2000-problem ?? 

I configured --enable-bulletins and --enable-bulldb
Compiled just like that.

Any ideas ? 

guenter
guenter wessling (hypnose at t-online dot de)

Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 10:57:49 -0500
From: Jack Sasportas <jack at innovativeinternet dot com>
Subject: Logging Output ?

Can someone tell me in what code file the routine that outputs the data
to the log file is ?

Thanks !

--
___________________________________________________________
Jack Sasportas
Innovative Internet Solutions
Phone 305.665.2500
Fax 305.665.2551
www.innovativeinternet.com
www.web56.net



From: "Radek Michalski" <radek.michalski at interia dot pl>
Subject: Maildir - not enoug help
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 00:44:20 +0100

Hi!

I'm using Qpopper one week, and my question is:
Qpoper wants to use /var/spool/mail/ directory, but on my distributon, mail
comes to $HOME/mail/(user_name-file). In help I've found an
option --enable-home-dir=*
But I think, that that option doesnt help my in nmy situation, cause the
mailfile is called (user) and in mail directory, not Mailbox - how should I
configure my Qpopper (use this $HOME/mail/user) or Linux to redirect mail to
/var/spool/mail? FAQ doenst help my...

Best regards, Radek (M)


Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 22:26:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Sergiy Zhuk <serge at yahoo-inc dot com>
Subject: mailbox format

hi

Just a few notes on qpopper's performance:

The major performance bottleneck for current versions of qpopper is the
Berkeley mailbox format, i.e. all messages in a single file.
If you have several large mailboxes (say 20Mb+) on the system and users
leave mail on server and then check mail every other minute, your box is
spending an incredible amount of IO resources reading and rewriting those
mailboxes every time those users connect.
Less than 5% of user population in that case can use up to 90% of system
IO resources.
qpopper's server mode doesn't help much in case user leaves messages
on server, since qpopper still needs to read the whole mailbox every time
and then, if any new messages arrived during the active pop session, to 
rewrite the mailbox.
Keeping mailbox files in user home directories rather than in /var/mail also
helps with locking, but doesn't help much with IO.

There're different approaches, e.g. Cyrus, which uses one file per message
plus index files format.
This works much better since you're solving locking and IO performance
problem at once.
Yes, this will also require our own local delivery agent, but it's probably
worth it.
Cyrus is a much larger project, has a huge codebase and almost nothing
happened with it during the last year.
It would be really great if qpopper supported some high performance mailbox
format.

So, the question is

Are there any plans to support non-Berkeley mailbox formats ?

thanks

--
rgds,
serge


Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 10:40:03 +0100
From: Jesus Cea Avion <jcea at argo dot es>
Subject: Re: mailbox format

> Just a few notes on qpopper's performance:

I was thinking the other day about keeping an index for each mailbox, in
a separate file, when using server mode. This index could keep:

- The number of messages, and the size of the mailbox file.

- The offset and the size of each message.

- Some extra headers, like "uidl" or "status", in order to avoid
  mailbox rewriting.

If qpop detects an index file and the mailbox is bigger than the size
indicated in the index, you just have to scan the last messages, not the
entire mailbox, and rebuild the index.

You can simplify things doing:

- If the user doesn't erase any message, just store the index.

- If the user erase any message, wipe the entire index. It will be
rebuild next time the user logs in.

-- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at argo.es http://www.argo dot es/~jcea/ _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
                                      _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
PGP Key Available at KeyServ   _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 08:46:09 -0600 (CST)
From: Michael <mogmios at mlug.missouri dot edu>
Subject: Documentation.. setting up users..

Is there any good docs for qpopper? So far all I've seen was instalaltion
instructions and rfc's.

Our old mail site used qpopper and provided for us individual accounts for
all our staff, aliases to direct mail to one of the above accounts when a
department was emailed, and autoresponders.

How do I setup pop mail in some way that is secure? I either need to
force encryption of the passwords being transfered or make sure the
passwords are different than the Unix passwords used to login.

How do you set up an alias? Do you have to create another account and
forward the mail or does Qpopper have some trick to make this easy?

How do I set up auto-responders w/ Qpopper? Or again would I have to do
that in Unix?

Thanks.

*^*^*^*
Have the courage to take your own thoughts seriously, for they will shape
you. -- Albert Einstein



Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 12:36:23 -0500
From: Joseph S D Yao <jsdy at cospo.osis dot gov>
Subject: Re: mailbox format

On Thu, Dec 07, 2000 at 10:40:03AM +0100, Jesus Cea Avion wrote:
> > Just a few notes on qpopper's performance:
> 
> I was thinking the other day about keeping an index for each mailbox, in
> a separate file, when using server mode. This index could keep:
...

You all are assuming that all users are using qpopper exclusively.  If
you can enforce that, this kind of thing would work.  But the thing
about the Unix [not Berkeley] mail file format is that it is the common
inbox format that all other mail programs expect to see.  Change it,
and break all the rest.

You could make this a compile-time option for 'qpopper'.  Yet another.
;-]

-- 
Joe Yao				jsdy at cospo.osis dot gov - Joseph S. D. Yao
COSPO/OSIS Computer Support					EMT-B
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This message is not an official statement of COSPO policies.

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:51:21 -0500
From: Joseph S D Yao <jsdy at cospo.osis dot gov>
Subject: Re: Documentation.. setting up users..

On Thu, Dec 07, 2000 at 08:46:09AM -0600, Michael wrote:
...
> How do you set up an alias? Do you have to create another account and
> forward the mail or does Qpopper have some trick to make this easy?

Unix.  'man aliases'.  Either /etc/aliases or /etc/mail/aliases.

	alias:	realname
	alias:	name,name,name
	(etc.)

Then run 'newaliases'.

> How do I set up auto-responders w/ Qpopper? Or again would I have to do
> that in Unix?

Unix, either in aliases or in ~user/.forward, or some other forward
file you devise.  The 'sendmail' program gives you a huge number of
options on how to do this.

-- 
Joe Yao				jsdy at cospo.osis dot gov - Joseph S. D. Yao
COSPO/OSIS Computer Support					EMT-B
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This message is not an official statement of COSPO policies.

Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 19:57:56 +0100
From: Jesus Cea Avion <jcea at argo dot es>
Subject: Re: mailbox format

> You all are assuming that all users are using qpopper exclusively.

In my email I said clearly "using server-mode". In "server mode",
currently, Qpopper assumes it is the unique process deleting email (see
the docs), so my idea seems fairly appropiate.

-- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at argo.es http://www.argo dot es/~jcea/ _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
                                      _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
PGP Key Available at KeyServ   _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz

From: "Kenneth Porter" <shiva at well dot com>
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 16:48:51 -0800
Subject: Re: Documentation.. setting up users..

On Thu, 7 Dec 2000 08:46:09 -0600 (CST), Michael wrote:

>How do I setup pop mail in some way that is secure? I either need to
>force encryption of the passwords being transfered or make sure the
>passwords are different than the Unix passwords used to login.

For encrypting only the password, look at APOP. qpopper provides tools
for registering a separate APOP password. For encrypting the entire
message, consider using stunnel to present an encrypted POP3 session on
the spop3 port. This is a separate package that "wraps" other services
like qpopper.

>How do you set up an alias? Do you have to create another account and
>forward the mail or does Qpopper have some trick to make this easy?
>How do I set up auto-responders w/ Qpopper? Or again would I have to do
>that in Unix?

This is the responsibility of your MTA, such as sendmail. It's outside
the scope of qpopper.

Ken
mailto:shiva at well dot com
http://www.sewingwitch.com/ken/



Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 15:09:45 +0000
From: Wasim Bashir <wasim.bashir at broadband.co dot uk>
Subject: how do i use both apop + clear text passwords

Hi,

my qpopper only allow users to pick up email with apop... i want to
know how do i get qpopper to accept both apop and clear text passwords...

the way i see it... if i take out a user from the popauth database...
shouldn't qpopper allow the user taken out of the database to use clear text
passwords ? every time i do this i keep getting authentication failure
errors because the user isn't in the popauth database, even though the
apop option isn't ticked.


Regards,

Wasim




--------------------------------

Broadband Communications Ltd.
+44 (0)115 924 7150
http://www.broadband.co.uk



Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:12:28 -0800
From: Qpopper Support <qpopper at qualcomm dot com>
Subject: Re: getpwnam inefficiency in genpath

At 3:47 PM +0000 12/5/00, Fergal Daly wrote:

>  Hi all,
>  	I'm using the homedir mail and I was doing some messing about with
>  eliminating /etc/passwd when I discovered that every time I log in, genpath
>  gets called 4 times, which means that getpwnam is called 4 times, which will
>  cause a big hit with a large passwd file (or if you use a DB). 
> There are also
>  several other places in the code that do passwd file lookups.
>
>  It would be nice if qpopper did a single getpwnam call and then cached the
>  results somewhere (maybe in the in POP structure). I know genpath doesn't
>  have access to this structure (and it shouldn't either) but I think there
>  should be a way of passing an already retrieved passwd structure into
>  genpath.
>
>  A single passwd lookup opens the door for very easy addition of weird and
>  wacky custom passwd lookup methods. By the way, you still need to worry
>  about passwd lookups even if you're using PAM, Kerberos or APOP as these are
>  simply authentication methods and do not handle UID, GID or homedir lookup.
>
>  There's a bit of work involved in making this happen and I'm willing to do
>  it but only if the maintainers are open to accepting this sort of change.
>  So, maintainers, are you?
>
>  Fergal

This has been on the to-do list since genpath() was cleaned up in 
3.x.  If you send a patch we'd be happy to review it for inclusion, 
if not, it will probably be addressed in an upcoming release.

Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 17:12:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Sergiy Zhuk <serge at yahoo-inc dot com>
Subject: qpopper using maildir format

hi

follow-up about qpopper's performance:

Some people on the list suggested using qmail with its own POP3 daemon.
The key here is the "maildir" mailbox format.
If qpopper could understand that format, we could remove most of performance
bottlenecks like locking (there's *NONE* with maildir format), reading
the entire mailbox to list messages, rewriting the entire mailbox to update
status etc.
You don't even have to use qmail for delivery, since a very popular procmail
can deliver to 'maildir' type mailboxes since v3.14.
procmail is pretty often used as LDA for sendmail and other mailers for
filtering.

Any plans to implement this, any volunteers ? ;)

thanks

--
rgds,
serge


Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 20:21:19 -0500
From: Forrest Aldrich <forrie at forrie dot com>
Subject: Re: qpopper using maildir format

I think that would be a great idea.

I've heard different stories about using maildir format.   Mostly, of the 
negative aspect (allegedly) of using this on a high I/O mail system due to 
it using individual files -- I can't recall the caveat.


_F


At 05:12 PM 12/8/2000 -0800, Sergiy Zhuk wrote:
>hi
>
>follow-up about qpopper's performance:
>
>Some people on the list suggested using qmail with its own POP3 daemon.
>The key here is the "maildir" mailbox format.
>If qpopper could understand that format, we could remove most of performance
>bottlenecks like locking (there's *NONE* with maildir format), reading
>the entire mailbox to list messages, rewriting the entire mailbox to update
>status etc.
>You don't even have to use qmail for delivery, since a very popular procmail
>can deliver to 'maildir' type mailboxes since v3.14.
>procmail is pretty often used as LDA for sendmail and other mailers for
>filtering.
>
>Any plans to implement this, any volunteers ? ;)
>
>thanks
>
>--
>rgds,
>serge


Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 17:35:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Sergiy Zhuk <serge at yahoo-inc dot com>
Subject: Re: qpopper using maildir format

hi

On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Forrest Aldrich wrote:

> I've heard different stories about using maildir format.   Mostly, of the 
> negative aspect (allegedly) of using this on a high I/O mail system due to 
> it using individual files -- I can't recall the caveat.

This is probably related to the number of files in the directory since you
have to read it every time and then you have to open individual files.
Generally, if you have more than 2,000 files in one directory on a generic
system, it could be a problem.
That depends on how well kernel level fs caching works, but still, I believe
it will create less IO than what I've described in my prev. messages.
Also note, that the longer you're holding the lock on the mailbox, the
longer it takes for LDA to deliver the message, so your LDA is waiting
for popper to rewrite the mailbox and MDA (sendmail) is waiting for your
LDA, all consuming system resources.
Anyway, I'm gonna try it with maildir and qmail popper and then I'll have
some real numbers...

--
rgds,
serge


From: "Kenneth Porter" <shiva at well dot com>
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 18:54:05 -0800
Subject: Re: qpopper using maildir format

On Fri, 8 Dec 2000 17:35:06 -0800 (PST), Sergiy Zhuk wrote:

>This is probably related to the number of files in the directory since you
>have to read it every time and then you have to open individual files.
>Generally, if you have more than 2,000 files in one directory on a generic
>system, it could be a problem.

This assumes that all message files are kept in a single spool
directory? Or would the spool directory contain a subdirectory for each
user?

The downside I see is space-inefficiency. Many small message files vs.
one large mailbox file.

I would hope that any patch to support an alternate format would
abstract the interface to the mailbox, so that it would be relatively
simple to plug in other formats in the future.

Ken
mailto:shiva at well dot com
http://www.sewingwitch.com/ken/



Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 19:11:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Sergiy Zhuk <serge at yahoo-inc dot com>
Subject: Re: qpopper using maildir format

hi

On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Kenneth Porter wrote:

> >Generally, if you have more than 2,000 files in one directory on a generic
> >system, it could be a problem.
> 
> This assumes that all message files are kept in a single spool
> directory? Or would the spool directory contain a subdirectory for each
> user?

maildir format:
http://www.trash.net/~thomasb/mutt/maildir.txt

--
rgds,
serge


From: "Kenneth Porter" <shiva at well dot com>
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 19:52:11 -0800
Subject: Re: qpopper using maildir format

On Fri, 8 Dec 2000 19:11:24 -0800 (PST), Sergiy Zhuk wrote:

>maildir format:
>http://www.trash.net/~thomasb/mutt/maildir.txt

Thanks, looks pretty straightforward. Here's some additional info
referred to in the above document:

http://cr.yp.to/proto/maildir.html

The first document says that the environment variable MAILDIR specifies
the location of the directory. What are typical values for this? How
does this get set for the MDA and MUA?

Who's responsible for creating the UID for the POP3 protocol? Can
procmail do that at delivery time? Or can the unique filename used for
the message file be translated into the UID in some simple way?

Ken
mailto:shiva at well dot com
http://www.sewingwitch.com/ken/



Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 23:37:45 -0500
From: Carl Schelin <cschelin at hq.nasa dot gov>
Subject: Re: qpopper using maildir format

There were suggestions from our Engineering dept about implementing a 
maildir type system. We have about 2000 accounts in /var/mail taking about 
5 gigs of storage and rewriting to the tune of 24 gigs today.

They liked the idea but the customer (NASA HQ) is looking for a more 
"Yahoo" like e-mail solution so that users from HQ who travel to the other 
centers a lot can Browse to their mail instead of leaving a footprint on 
someones desk or dragging a laptop around the country.

So it was shelved.

For my own enlightenment, I'd be curious about the implementation of a 
maildir type of system. For future use of course.

Carl

At 08:21 PM 12/8/00 -0500, Forrest Aldrich wrote:
>I think that would be a great idea.
>
>I've heard different stories about using maildir format.   Mostly, of the 
>negative aspect (allegedly) of using this on a high I/O mail system due to 
>it using individual files -- I can't recall the caveat.
>_F


Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 18:18:02 +1300 (NZDT)
From: Alan Brown <alan at manawatu.gen dot nz>
Subject: Re: qpopper using maildir format

On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Carl Schelin wrote:

> They liked the idea but the customer (NASA HQ) is looking for a more 
> "Yahoo" like e-mail solution so that users from HQ who travel to the other 
> centers a lot can Browse to their mail instead of leaving a footprint on 
> someones desk or dragging a laptop around the country.

There are a number of broswer-based access mehtods to both maildir and
mbox format setups. The one I use interfaces to pop3, so can be used
from almost anywhere to almost anwhere.

AB


Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 00:37:47 -0500
From: Forrest Aldrich <forrie at forrie dot com>
Subject: Re: qpopper using maildir format

Look at the IMP package on www.horde.org.   It takes some effort to get 
installed, but is nice.  Also, check out www.freshmeat.net. Use their 
search feature, and you'll find other such things like NeoMail, AtDot, etc.


_F


At 06:18 PM 12/9/2000 +1300, Alan Brown wrote:
>On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Carl Schelin wrote:
>
> > They liked the idea but the customer (NASA HQ) is looking for a more
> > "Yahoo" like e-mail solution so that users from HQ who travel to the other
> > centers a lot can Browse to their mail instead of leaving a footprint on
> > someones desk or dragging a laptop around the country.
>
>There are a number of broswer-based access mehtods to both maildir and
>mbox format setups. The one I use interfaces to pop3, so can be used
>from almost anywhere to almost anwhere.
>
>AB


Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 08:23:47 +0100 (MET)
From: Piotr Kasztelowicz <pekasz at lodz.ptkardio dot pl>
Subject: Re: qpopper using maildir format

On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Forrest Aldrich wrote:

> Look at the IMP package on www.horde.org.   It takes some effort to get 
> installed, but is nice.  Also, check out www.freshmeat.net. Use their 
> search feature, and you'll find other such things like NeoMail, AtDot, etc.

I'm using now on two servers AtDot and MailMan (both Sun Sparc) but
there are some problems. AtDot takes some painful errors, which need
to correct, although corrections has been making, problems exists.
MailMan seams to work correct, but very slowly. AtDot and MailMan
I use for mbox format. On 3rd server, which supports Maildir format,
I use sqwebmail, which I'm  most satisfied (but this not support mbox).

My question is - Can anybody recommend me a most useful software
for web account using POP3/SMTP supporting mbox format (for using
with sendmail too)

Best Wishes

Piotr 
---
Piotr Kasztelowicz                 <Piotr.Kasztelowicz at lodz.ptkardio dot pl>
[http://www.am.torun.pl/~pekasz]


Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 23:58:27 -0800
From: Qpopper Support <qpopper at qualcomm dot com>
Subject: Re: qpopper using maildir format

At 5:12 PM -0800 12/8/00, Sergiy Zhuk wrote:

>  hi
>
>  follow-up about qpopper's performance:
>
>  Some people on the list suggested using qmail with its own POP3 daemon.
>  The key here is the "maildir" mailbox format.
>  If qpopper could understand that format, we could remove most of performance
>  bottlenecks like locking (there's *NONE* with maildir format), reading
>  the entire mailbox to list messages, rewriting the entire mailbox to update
>  status etc.
>  You don't even have to use qmail for delivery, since a very popular procmail
>  can deliver to 'maildir' type mailboxes since v3.14.
>  procmail is pretty often used as LDA for sendmail and other mailers for
>  filtering.
>
>  Any plans to implement this, any volunteers ? ;)
>
>  thanks
>
>  --
>  rgds,
>  serge

Maildir support is one of the features we are considering for a 
future release.  Naturally, we welcome any submitted patches.

Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 09:18:06 +0100 (MET)
From: Piotr Kasztelowicz <pekasz at lodz.ptkardio dot pl>
Subject: Re: qpopper using maildir format

Hello

> Maildir support is one of the features we are considering for a 
> future release.  Naturally, we welcome any submitted patches.

For Maildir format qmail supports its own pop software, which
need to add checkpassword. The information howto are present
on qmail page (http://www.qmail.org)

Piotr
---
Piotr Kasztelowicz                 <Piotr.Kasztelowicz at lodz.ptkardio dot pl>
[http://www.am.torun.pl/~pekasz]


Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 07:08:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Gustavo Viscaino <g_viscaino at yahoo dot com>
Subject: Shadow passwords with DES encryption

Hello all,

I was upgrading an old machine with an old version of
Slackware Linux to a RedHat Linux 6.2 a while ago.
After I copied /etc/passwd, shadow, and group to a
disk, put the files into the fresh installed RedHat
6.2 box and compiled Qpopper with
--enable-specialauth, I realized I was still not able
to log in with any user. All attempts returned the
usual "Password supplied for whoever is incorrect."
Then I added a new user and his account worked
perfectly. Then I issued the command "passwd -S
oldaccount" and "passwd -S newaccount". The old
account was using DES encryption + shadow and the new
one I had created was using RedHat 6.2¥s default, MD5
+ shadow passwords. Just to make sure I wasn¥t going
crazy, I disabled the MD5 option (so it would use DES
encryption), added a new user and ... bingo. "Password
supplied for whoever is incorrect".

Of course I could just change all users¥ passwords,
but geez... 1000 users, people! ;-) Well, of course, I
used PAM as my last chance and it worked... but it was
a true pain and for some other reasons, I can¥t use
PAM in other setups. So does anyone know if this is a
Qpopper¥s bug, feature or just common behaviour? Did I
screw things up half-way through? ;)

Thanks in advance,

Gustavo Viscaino

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/

Subject: Re: qpopper using maildir format
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 13:00:48 +0100 (MET)
From: Eric Luyten <Eric.Luyten at vub.ac dot be>

> There were suggestions from our Engineering dept about implementing a 
> maildir type system. We have about 2000 accounts in /var/mail taking about 
> 5 gigs of storage and rewriting to the tune of 24 gigs today.

Our server :  Sun Enterprise 4000 with 6 processors and 3 Gig of RAM,
              mail spools : four RAID5-sets (2 x 16 Gig, 2 x 8 Gig)
              20,000+ users, 20 Gigabytes worth of mailboxes
              last Tuesday : 256898 POP3-accesses, 338 Gigabytes mailspool I/O
...
> For my own enlightenment, I'd be curious about the implementation of a 
> maildir type of system. For future use of course.

Our central mailserver is scheduled for replacement/upgrading/revising
coming calendar year and unless we find an alternative message store
for Qpopper, it'll probably go out of the window.

Eric.

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 14:44:49 -0500
From: Jack Sasportas <jack at innovativeinternet dot com>
Subject: Current SCAM via 809 Area Code

--------------7A17CAF4C7BC6B1F74A97F28
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Please read the information available at our website...

http://www.web56.net/scam.php
--
___________________________________________________________
Jack Sasportas
Innovative Internet Solutions
Phone 305.665.2500
Fax 305.665.2551
www.innovativeinternet.com
www.web56.net


--------------7A17CAF4C7BC6B1F74A97F28
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Disposition: inline;
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Content-Base: "http://www.web56.net/scam.php"
Content-Location: "http://www.web56.net/scam.php"


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else if (browserName == "Microsoft Internet Explorer" && browserVer >= 4) version = "n3";
else version = "n2";
if (version == "n3") {
   r_01on = new Image(132, 44);
   r_01on.src = "images/join-hov.jpg";
   r_01off = new Image(132, 44);
   r_01off.src = "images/join.jpg";

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      <br><p align='center'><font color='#FFFFFF' size='2' face='Arial'>Monday<br><align='center'><font color='#FFFFFF' size='1' face='Arial'>December, 11th 2000<br>02:36 PM    <td width="20" valign="top">&l
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                <td width="100%"><font size="2"><font face="Arial" size="2">Current
                  Scam: Please Read....</font>
                  <p><font face="Arial" size="2">DON'T EVER DIAL AREA CODE 809</font></p>
                  <p><font face="Arial" size="2">This one is being distributed
                  all over the US. This is pretty scary especially given the way
                  they try to get you to call. Be sure you</font></p>
                  <p><font face="Arial" size="2">read this &amp; pass it on to
                  all your friends and family so they don't get scammed!</font></p>
                  <p><font face="Arial" size="2">MAJOR SCAM:</font></p>
                  <p><font face="Arial" size="2">Don't respond to Emails, phone
                  calls, or web pages which tell you to call an &quot;809&quot;
                  Phone Number. This is a very important issue of Scam
                  Busters=21 because it alerts you to a scam that is spreading
                  *extremely* quickly - can easily cost you $24100 or more, and
                  is difficult to avoid unless you are aware of it.</font></p>
                  <p><font face="Arial" size="2">We'd like to thank Verizon for
                  bringing this scam to our attention. This scam has also been
                  identified by the National Fraud Information Center and is
                  costing victims a lot of money. There are lots of different
                  permutations of this scam, but HERE'S HOW IT WORKS: You will
                  receive a message on your answering machine or your pager,
                  which asks you to call a number beginning with area code 809.
                  The reason you're asked to call varies. It can be to receive
                  information about a family member who has been ill, to tell
                  you someone has been arrested, died, to let you know you have
                  won a wonderful prize, etc. In each case, you are told to call
                  the 809 number right away.</font></p>
                  <p><font face="Arial" size="2">Since there are so many new
                  area codes these days, people unknowingly return these calls.
                  If you call from the US, you will apparently be</font></p>
                  <p><font face="Arial" size="2">charged $2425 per-minute. Or,
                  you'll get a long recorded message. The point is, they will
                  try to keep you on the phone as long as possible to increase
                  the charges. Unfortunately, when you get your phone bill,
                  you'll often be charged more than $24100.00.</font></p>
                  <p><font face="Arial" size="2">WHY IT WORKS: The 809 area code
                  is located in the British Virgin Islands (The Bahamas). The
                  809 area code can be used as a &quot;pay-per-call&quot;</font></p>
                  <p><font face="Arial" size="2">number, similar to 900 numbers
                  in the US. Since 809 is not in the US, it is not covered by
                  U.S. regulations of 900 numbers, which require</font></p>
                  <p><font face="Arial" size="2">that you be notified and warned
                  of charges and rates involved when you call a
                  &quot;pay-per-call&quot; number.</font></p>
                  <p><font face="Arial" size="2">There is also no requirement
                  that the company provide a time period during which you may
                  terminate the call without being charged.</font></p>
                  <p><font face="Arial" size="2">Further, whereas many U.S.
                  phones have 900 number blocking to avoid these kinds of
                  charges, 900 number blocking will not prevent calls</font></p>
                  <p><font face="Arial" size="2">to the 809 area code. We
                  recommend that no matter how you get the message, if you are
                  asked to call a number with an 809 area code that you</font></p>
                  <p><font face="Arial" size="2">don't recognize and/or
                  investigate further and just disregard the message.</font></p>
                  <p><font face="Arial" size="2">Be wary of email or calls
                  asking you to call an 809 area code number. It's important to
                  prevent becoming a victim of this scam,</font></p>
                  <p><font face="Arial" size="2">since trying to fight the
                  charges afterwards can become A real nightmare. That's because
                  you did actually make thecall. If you complain, both your
                  local phone company and your long distance carrier will not
                  want to get involved and will most likely tell you that they
                  are simply providing the billing for the foreign company.</font></p>
                  <p><font face="Arial" size="2">You'll end up dealing with a
                  foreign company that argues they have done nothing wrong.
                  Please forward this entire message to your</font></p>
                  <p><font face="Arial" size="2">friends, family and colleagues
                  to help them become aware of this scam.</font></p>
                  <p>&nbsp;</p>
                  <p><font face="Arial" size="2">Innovative Internet Solutions</font></font></td>
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      <p align="center"><font face="verdana, arial, helvetica"><strong><small><small>All
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      Innovative Internet Solutions Group, Inc</small></small><br>
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            <td width="121" bgcolor="#9D95B7">&nbsp; <font face="verdana, arial, helvetica"><small><font color="#000000">-
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              <small>&nbsp; - <a href="http://www.morningstar.net/">Morningstar</a></small><br>
              <small>&nbsp; - <a href="http://quote.yahoo.com/?u">Yahoo Finance</a></small><br>
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--------------7A17CAF4C7BC6B1F74A97F28--


Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 16:58:40 -0500
From: Jack Sasportas <jack at innovativeinternet dot com>
Subject: Idea! Re: qpopper using maildir format

While this is open source and we appreciate it and how the whole open source
community works, how much would a change like this cost, and how many of us would
be willing to put some money into it in order to get something like this written
right away ?

I would gladly consider putting some money in to this...(nothing huge dollar
wise)...

Am I even crazy thinking about this ?


Jack

Qpopper Support wrote:

> At 5:12 PM -0800 12/8/00, Sergiy Zhuk wrote:
>
> >  hi
> >
> >  follow-up about qpopper's performance:
> >
> >  Some people on the list suggested using qmail with its own POP3 daemon.
> >  The key here is the "maildir" mailbox format.
> >  If qpopper could understand that format, we could remove most of performance
> >  bottlenecks like locking (there's *NONE* with maildir format), reading
> >  the entire mailbox to list messages, rewriting the entire mailbox to update
> >  status etc.
> >  You don't even have to use qmail for delivery, since a very popular procmail
> >  can deliver to 'maildir' type mailboxes since v3.14.
> >  procmail is pretty often used as LDA for sendmail and other mailers for
> >  filtering.
> >
> >  Any plans to implement this, any volunteers ? ;)
> >
> >  thanks
> >
> >  --
> >  rgds,
> >  serge
>
> Maildir support is one of the features we are considering for a
> future release.  Naturally, we welcome any submitted patches.

--
___________________________________________________________
Jack Sasportas
Innovative Internet Solutions
Phone 305.665.2500
Fax 305.665.2551
www.innovativeinternet.com
www.web56.net



From: "Peter R. Hubberstey" <peter at ukip dot com>
Subject: defunct processes in server mode ???
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 12:08:04 -0000

Hello, my name is Peter Hubberstey and I work for a small ISP in the UK.

I have compiled a new version of QPOP (version 3.1) some time ago and run it
bound to port 2000.  I informed a few of our technically literate users and
asked if they could test it.

The testing has gone OK for some months now ( about 3 ) so last night I
decided to change the main version.

I decided to rem the line from the /etc/inetd.conf and restart the inetd
daemon and run popper in stand alone mode instead.  We have about two
thousand customers using this server and whilst probably a maximum of around
10 or so ever collect mail at any one time, the disks are IDE so I figured
that popper's server mode would be a better choice.

So I run the daemon.

/usr/local/popper -SscT 120

All Fine.

Checked this morning and I know have loads of "defunct" task
check out the ps -ef

root     28598     1  0 Dec12 ?        00:00:02 /usr/sbin/popper 110 -SscT
120
thr      24270 28598  0 08:59 ?        00:00:00 [popper <defunct>]
smf      29619 28598  0 10:23 ?        00:00:02 [popper <defunct>]
rapgroup 30558 28598  1 10:38 ?        00:00:34 [popper <defunct>]
srbc     31274 28598  1 10:49 ?        00:00:27 /usr/sbin/popper 110 -SscT
120
jreeves  31847 28598  0 10:58 ?        00:00:00 [popper <defunct>]
deltek     821 28598  0 11:18 ?        00:00:00 [popper <defunct>]
pcmg       946 28598  0 11:21 ?        00:00:00 /usr/sbin/popper 110 -SscT
120
root      1004 28598  0 11:21 ?        00:00:00 /usr/sbin/popper 110 -SscT
120
rapgroup  1094 28598 87 11:23 ?        00:00:12 /usr/sbin/popper 110 -SscT
120

Trouble is I have found that by killing the defunct tasks, it brings down
the main daemon too.

Any known problems? Suggestions ?

RedHat 6.2 on an AMD K6 300 using glibc 2.1.1-6

Regards;

Peter (UKIP)


From: "Peter R. Hubberstey" <peter at ukip dot com>
Subject: RE: defunct processes in server mode ???
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 14:32:01 -0000

Well, this is how I understood the documentation:

When running from inetd, the mail spool file is copied and the popper spools
from that file.  When running in standalone mode that doesn't happen.

Therefore, the reasoning behind choosing standalone is that the machine is a
bag of rubbish really for the task. (AMD K6 300MHz with only 1 physical IDE
disk although 512 MB of RAM)

Since IDE requires not insignificant CPU overhead, I don't really want to
copy a large mailbox (many customers have mailboxes > 30-40 MB) each time
they log in.




-----Original Message-----
From: peter.allen at moon-light.co.uk [mailto:peter.allen at moon-light dot co dot uk]
Sent: 13 December 2000 14:08
To: Peter R. Hubberstey
Subject: Re: defunct processes in server mode ???



Hi Peter

What was the problem with running it from inetd ?

We do that here at Moonlight without problem (and also with the benefit of
tcp wrappers).

Peter


At 12:08 13/12/2000 +0000, you wrote:
>Hello, my name is Peter Hubberstey and I work for a small ISP in the UK.
>
>I have compiled a new version of QPOP (version 3.1) some time ago and run
it
>bound to port 2000.  I informed a few of our technically literate users and
>asked if they could test it.
>
>The testing has gone OK for some months now ( about 3 ) so last night I
>decided to change the main version.
>
>I decided to rem the line from the /etc/inetd.conf and restart the inetd
>daemon and run popper in stand alone mode instead.  We have about two
>thousand customers using this server and whilst probably a maximum of
around
>10 or so ever collect mail at any one time, the disks are IDE so I figured
>that popper's server mode would be a better choice.
>
>So I run the daemon.
>
>/usr/local/popper -SscT 120
>
>All Fine.
>
>Checked this morning and I know have loads of "defunct" task
>check out the ps -ef
>
>root     28598     1  0 Dec12 ?        00:00:02 /usr/sbin/popper 110 -SscT
>120
>thr      24270 28598  0 08:59 ?        00:00:00 [popper <defunct>]
>smf      29619 28598  0 10:23 ?        00:00:02 [popper <defunct>]
>rapgroup 30558 28598  1 10:38 ?        00:00:34 [popper <defunct>]
>srbc     31274 28598  1 10:49 ?        00:00:27 /usr/sbin/popper 110 -SscT
>120
>jreeves  31847 28598  0 10:58 ?        00:00:00 [popper <defunct>]
>deltek     821 28598  0 11:18 ?        00:00:00 [popper <defunct>]
>pcmg       946 28598  0 11:21 ?        00:00:00 /usr/sbin/popper 110 -SscT
>120
>root      1004 28598  0 11:21 ?        00:00:00 /usr/sbin/popper 110 -SscT
>120
>rapgroup  1094 28598 87 11:23 ?        00:00:12 /usr/sbin/popper 110 -SscT
>120
>
>Trouble is I have found that by killing the defunct tasks, it brings down
>the main daemon too.
>
>Any known problems? Suggestions ?
>
>RedHat 6.2 on an AMD K6 300 using glibc 2.1.1-6
>
>Regards;
>
>Peter (UKIP)
>




Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:34:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Sergiy Zhuk <serge at yahoo-inc dot com>
Subject: RE: defunct processes in server mode ???

hi

On Wed, 13 Dec 2000, Peter R. Hubberstey wrote:

> Well, this is how I understood the documentation:
> 
> When running from inetd, the mail spool file is copied and the popper spools
> from that file.  When running in standalone mode that doesn't happen.

You're confusing standalone and server mode.
qpopper doesn't copy mail spool file to a pop drop file in the server mode,
no matter if it's started from inetd or if it's standalone.
It copies the mailbox if user leaves messages on server and the mailbox was
modified during the pop session.

> Since IDE requires not insignificant CPU overhead, I don't really want to
> copy a large mailbox (many customers have mailboxes > 30-40 MB) each time
> they log in.

you're still reading it every time, this is why Berkeley mailbox format
should be decomissioned.
I tried qmail-pop3d with maildir format on a 46Mb mailbox.
The initial scan time is less than a second with qmail-pop3d vs 19 secs with
qpopper (server mode).
All this with pIII 460MHz running freebsd 3.4 with a single pop session.

--
rgds,
serge



Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 17:46:29 +1300 (NZDT)
From: Alan Brown <alan at manawatu.gen dot nz>
Subject: RE: defunct processes in server mode ???

On Wed, 13 Dec 2000, Sergiy Zhuk wrote:

> > Since IDE requires not insignificant CPU overhead, I don't really want to
> > copy a large mailbox (many customers have mailboxes > 30-40 MB) each time
> > they log in.
> 
> you're still reading it every time, this is why Berkeley mailbox format
> should be decomissioned.

It's the mailbox format which is the problem. IDE DMA these days is as
low a CPU overhead as scsi, as various linux kernel developers will
cheerfully tell you. 

Of course, it's only a good format if you run one drive per IDE bus...

Server RAM helps too. You have to be able to read in the entire mailbox
if you want reasonable startup performance.

AB